New Congregationalist hymnal

You think you guys have problems?

Kindly remember that musical notation goes from left to right but HEBREW is written from Right to Left!

We generally don't even PRINT the music; we hope everyone knows it or will learn it quickly!

Plus, we've been invaded by an appalling "modern" composer named, well in charity she should remain unnamed; doubtless her heart is in the right place but simple, monotonous endlessly repetitious kinderlieder make me want to barf in my tallis bag.

Well, the truth is, we don't have much good service music anyway. Lots of wonderful songs for the festivals, sure, but shabbat after shabbat, no, not really.

And no instruments!

We need to convert a few good Methodist musicians!

 

Well, I stand corrected. A member of the NACCC Hymnal Committee emailed me and told me Old Rugged Cross is listed. I simply did not see it.

I can see why. Here's how it's listed:

 

Posted by little fauss

WOW, quite a response.

Let's see. My wife is about as submissive as a rabid dog, she always wear shoes, though I do have seven children, so she spent some time in the family way. Kansas is not the deep south, no snake handlers here.

On a more serious note, I just got the impression with your post that you (and Jimmy for that matter) seem to believe (and I could be wrong) that there is a inherent reverence in hymn music and that anything outside those boundries is trite or trivial (your words). I was hoping to debate that point.

Don't mind a "horse's behind", give it your best shot!

 

As do all Semitic languages.

 

How is it that a discussion of sacred music and the "things of God" can turn into such acrimony?

This is a discussion about music. No need to insult posters with whom we disagree.

 

Yeah. Keep it civil, guys. Go insult millists and shills instead.

 

Hey dude, I'm from Kansas! And I'm a very conservative believer, just like the stereotypical Kansas Baptist (albeit with that "odd" Messianic predeliction).

That's why I was poking so much fun at you, we may even be a lot alike. And by the way, I have five children myself and we're constantly shooting for more (much to my great satisfaction considering the manner in which the feat is accomplished, but I digress).

I think there is some inherent reverence to the sounds and words of those time-honored hymns that have stood for hundreds of years. I think most of the modern "worship" music is poorly-written, clumsily arranged, sometimes theologically abominable when you actually pay a mite of attention to the words, and generally second-rate. I doubt anyone will be humming these tunes in a couple hundred years. And I think that beautyand magesty reflects G-d, that ugliness and triteness do not. I think that most of the music written for worship and sung in those modern evangelical churches fits squarely into the latter category. I cannot tell you precisely why. But this trendy music inspires nothing whatsoever in me but nausea. But, if there are people out there who are really getting a reverential worshipful attitude by listening to it, then I will not stand in the way. But I don't have to like it.

And even though it might just be a matter of taste, taste means something also. The little dogs passing cards beneath the table and smoking cigars might be a painting, but they are not art.

 

Miracles have not ceased.................

 

Janko & Jimmy:

Hey Guys, I love you, you know I do, but...

It's not acrimony--really!

It's jest. Fun. Frivolity. Good-natured horseplay.

I'm from Kansas; many call me a fundamentalist; I once even went to a Baptist church regularly many years ago (before I saw the Messianic light ); I have a big and growing family; my wife--in spite of advanced degrees--stays at home, and she's often barefoot and/or pregnant--it's true!

I'm merely having a little banter with the neighbor over the fence (Kansas Baptist might actually be my neighbor). You know, you throw at each other the biggest insults you can muster, pretend you're about to fight, then burst into laughter and have a beer.

Truly, no ill will intended towards Kansas Baptist--I thought you fine folks would see it. I mean, it was a bit over the top, wasn't it? You know I get passionate, but that kind of ad hominem from me? I have a million other faults, but that's not a biggie for me.

Anyway, I love you all. I was just getting a little ornery and having some fun. I even said it in italics underneath with the little laughing guy in my original "insult" post.

 

little fauss, I took it the way you intended it, that is why I responded in jest. No worries here

That is what is most important.

I agree 100%, but somebody somewhere (most likely in Texas or Arkansas) believes it is art and has it proudly displayed above the TV in their den.

 

My parents used to have a painting of a trucker driving a dangerous mountain pass through a blinding thunderstorm with a ghost-like figure of Jesus superimposed over it, his finger pointing the way. Underneath, on a little brass plaque nailed to the garish frame, was the caption "Fear Not; I Am With Thee". Now this was in an agnostic, irreligious family, but the trucker motif (once upon a time my dad owned a Peterbilt conventional with a 350 Detroit--you hicks out there know what I'm talking about) was just irresistible to my family. It went right above the couch.

I like the sentiment and all and I'm absolutely convinced that Jesus cares deeply about truckers and has miraculously guided many through trouble; but the taste of the whole thing--just too much for me.

BTW: Why don't ya just say "Wichita"? Another BTW: I went to Wichita State for UG, just blocks away from you.

 

When I was in the military (Ft. Bliss, actually WBAMC) a friend of mine picked up one of those velvet paintings of Jesus' crucifixion in Mexico. The thing was huge. It was the center piece of his living room and just gave me the creeps.

Hey, the citizens of Bel Aire put up a long and hard fight for recognition. We don't live in Wichita and we are all sick and tired of Wichitans trying to annex us! We have our own fire dept, water dept, and police dept (WARNING - if you ever drive through here, they are our primary source of revenue).

I have a son, daughter, and son-in-law that are shockers. Long live Wu-Shock!

 

I go to a church that is musically eclectic , we might sing a 7-11 song or we might sing an old hymn -- they are just ALL on the IMAG. I still want to pick up a hymnal occassionally.

My youngest son goes to a church with music like little fauss described. After a couple, I can't distinguish one song from another. I like the praise choruses, but I do like to know when we've moved from one to the next.

kansasbaptist -- rabid dog comment made me laugh. I haven't heard my hubby say that, but he might

 

So, then, "constantly shooting for more" wasn't the punch line? (Yes, I know... I'm very bad.)

Well, I have to say that I agree with at least the spirit of these words. I don't know if I'd go as far as nausea, but I get the point... and largely agree... especially with the "I cannot tell you precisely why" part. It really is difficult to articulate, isnt' it. For me, at least, I think it has something to do with how I've always, to some degree, compartmentalized my secular and non-secular life; how I want my hymnody in the former, and my pop/rock/folk music in the latter, with no encroachment of one into the other. Hmm. That's not really exactly describing it, either... but I know I'm at least pointing in the right direction. Boy, it really is difficult to explain, isn't it.

I need to think about this so I can figure out how I want to explain it. This is interesting. Honestly, Jimmy... I say again... thanks for starting this thread. Hmm. Very interesting.

Ha! Very good.

Yeah. It does kinda' make one wanna' pinch oneself... you know... just to be sure.

I thought she was Lutheran. Er... oh... wait... you meant... never mind.

Just beware of psychologists around here telling you there's more to it than that. (Inside joke... don't worry about it. Just kidding.)

Yeah... and those are the folks who like pop/rock church music... or so would seem to be little fauss's point. (Okay... maybe I did go a little too far with that one... and I'm most definitely not from Kansas.)

As to your use of the word "hicks": Hey!

Yet some still drive over the edge and tumble down into the ravine. Hmm. Maybe they were listenting to pop/rock church music at the time. If one wants Jesus to point the way, let him choose the station, too.

Ha! Now that was over the top!

 

I don't care what you say, I don't care how much you try to slice that suburb thingie; you still hail from that big overgrown cow town known as Wichita--admit it!

Yes! Go WuShock! Perhaps the craziest mascot in college sports.

For the unitiated, WuShock is a shock of wheat with arms and legs that runs about during games, cheering on the crowd. I don't know precisely how this is supposed to intimidate anyone, I mean, what exactly can wheat do to you at worst? Give you a little paper-cut thingie if someone whips you with one a little too hard? A stomach ache if you eat too many of mom's delicious biscuits?

Not exactly like the Wildcats or the Tigers. They can eat you for lunch. Even a boilermaker or a cowboy is a bit of a roughneck who could likely punch you out.

But stalks of wheat are eaten by herbivores who don't even have sharp teeth!

 

Yes, it rains on the good and the evil, good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people. All of our days are numbered along with the hairs on our heads being counted.

And when Jesus spoke to that motley collection of zealots, tax collectors, roughneck fishermen and blue-collar types and told some of them that they would drink from the cup He was about to drink, He was sure right--all but one died a violent death, and 10 of the 11 who did died in defense of the Gospel, for doing what was right.

And yet--G-d was in control. And I'm sure He preserved their lives just as long as was necessary for them to accomplish their missions--and not one minute longer. But what of 70 or so years compared with eternity?