No dissertation for Northcentral University International Dept DBA?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by carlosb, Jul 14, 2005.

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  1. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: SCUPS

    SCUPS probably raises a lot of revenue, so it would be out of the question to dispose of it.
     
  2. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    NCU

    I've found at least five or six "universities" that Dr. Hecht has founded/owned and operated since getting out of Columbia with is ScD. BTW - he does have a ScD in engineering of some kind, not a PhD in Business Admin as that "international" site indicates.

    Anyway, having two companies with different branded products is certainly nothing unusual. Dr. Hecht, which is clearly evident on the state of Arizona's secretary of state site, ownes 100% of NCU, Inc. And, he is the CEO. I have no idea if he either ownes or operates the other school in California, or whether he sold it with some form of licensing/management agreement. In any event, the California institution will hurt him if he doesn't draw more distinct lines between the institutions and the ability to go back and forth, to say nothing of the other debacle over the HUT thing.

    Can you imagine Hecht operating all these schools when there was no internet? He's been at this since the mid 1970's and moved to Prescott I'd imagine because it's in the central accrediting jurisdicion and to be in the same town as the Embry Riddle headquarters, which was a smart alliance, assuming that was his intention. He canked up North Central University - later renamed Northcentral University as a niche player when nobody knew whether this "internet" thing would ever amount to anything or not. He appears to grow the firm organically, rather than take on tons of debt (at least the D & B reports no significant debt). He's been burned in the past and frankly, is growing the firm at a measured pace, in my opinion. NCU's total enrollment is roughly 20% or a Capella or Walden.

    I've build businesses before and it ain't easy. Hecht started NCU in an enviroment with lots of risk and has done well thus far I think. I'm not included to trash him or the company yet. If however, they don't recognize that they aren't the scrappy little mail order degree program anymore and begin to really act professionally, then this crap over HUT, if and only if they continue this type of crap, will likely be the beginning of the end of anything more than what NCU is today. Or worst, they could pull the accredidation and it would become irrelevant.

    I'm babbling again.
     
  3. bing

    bing New Member

    Re: NCU

    Not sure I follow the 20%. NCU has 20% the enrollment of Walden or Capella?

    Given that NCU has shown their colors now it makes me believe that one will take a risky, and expensive, gamble going with them. Everyone who looks at NCU will have to weigh it out for themselves. We don't know what sort of monkey business NCU will engage in for the future. Is past performance indicative of future results in this case? As long as the SCUPS umbilical cord remains attached potential students will always have a question about the future viability of an NCU degree in their mind.

    NCU has "muddied the waters" for other DL schools either newly accredited or starting the accreditation process. Should people start to look at Cal Coast or Columbia Southern with an eye of suspicion now? Will we see them in Vietnam hooked up with Kennedy-Western or something? Doesn't Ananheim have thoughts of moving toward accredtiation? Their past seems a bit interesting, too.

    I'm not saying it won't turn out all rosy for NCU or their students. I hope it does work, as do most on the forum. It's just risky and other options, even similarly priced, are available for would-be students.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2005
  4. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    Re: Re: NCU

    I noted in this thread a link to the department of eduction. There's a pdf file that's a report to congress on the distance learning project - that NCU just dropped out of, involving the Title IV aid. In that publication, there is a table showing time series on enrollment of all the participants, including the aforementioned.
     
  5. Ike

    Ike New Member

    Some people did. I believe that Rich certainly did. Many others also expressed their opinions about NCU doctoral programs even before accreditation was achieched. You also expressed your (negative) opinion here after taking two NCU doctoral classes.
     
  6. sulla

    sulla New Member

    Re: NCU

    No, you're not. These are very interesting comments. It clearly provides a different angle about Dr. Hecht that makes the school's changes more understanding. I agree with you that starting a business is never easy and takes a lot of risk, and guts. Of course, some people will say that there is a greed motivator with going for-profit, but greed is part of all of us in a way, and if a school is genuine and honest in its goals, and adheres to the average academic standards, then I see no problems with it. But most of these entrepreneurs, maybe in your case as well (I think you're in real estate or something, right?), are motivated by a dream... a vision of creating something big with recognition. Money and becoming millionaires is great but I think this guy is rich enough for money not to be the primary motivator in the beginning. However, I think NCU is barely breaking even and they are struggling to stay afloat. OTOH, SCUPS seems to be doign much better financially despite not being accreditted and using the profits from SCUPS to maintain NCU might not be working. This might explain why NCU has been lowering their standards recently in order to survive.

    I think, IMO, that maybe the not-for-profit model would be more appropriate and economical for many new small schools like NCU. They don't have to pay taxes and gets tons of benefits and aids from the state which helps new school stay afloat longer, and rely less on student's tuition only to survive. On the downside, I guess you don't get a lot of freedom to do what you want and how you wanted it done with the not-profit model. :D


    Sulla
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2005
  7. sulla

    sulla New Member

    Re: NCU

    No, you're not. These are very interesting comments. It clearly provides a different angle about Dr. Hecht that makes the school's changes more understanding. I agree with you that starting a business is never easy and takes a lot of risk, and guts. Of course, some people will say that there is a greed motivator with going for-profit, but greed is part of all of us in a way, and if a school is genuine and honest in its goals, and adheres to the average academic standards, then I see no problems with it. But most of these entrepreneurs, maybe in your case as well (I think you're in real estate or something, right?), are motivated by a dream... a vision of creating something big with recognition. Money and becoming millionaires is great but I think this guy is rich enough for money not to be the primary motivator in the beginning. However, I think NCU is barely breaking even and they are struggling to stay afloat. OTOH, SCUPS seems to be doign much better financially despite not being accreditted and using the profits from SCUPS to maintain NCU might not be working. This might explain why NCU has been lowering their standards recently in order to survive.

    I think, IMO, that maybe the not-for-profit model would be more appropriate and economical for many new small schools like NCU. They don't have to pay taxes and gets tons of benefits and aids from the state which would help them stay afloat longer, and rely less on student's tuition to survive. On the downside, I guess you don't get a lot of freedom to do what you want and how you wanted it done with the not-profit model. :D

    Mmm, now you got me babbling. :D

    Sulla
     
  8. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: NCU

    Using SCUPS revenue to keep NCU financially afloat? Why do you think that is (or might be) the case?
     
  9. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    This writer said a long time ago that it will be interesting to see if NCU maintains regional accreditation. In light of these new revelations, it behooves Dr. Hecht to tighten up his ship for longevity. Achieving RA status is not easy, but losing it is harder.
     
  10. Eli

    Eli New Member

    How do we expect the public not to look at online schools with skepticism when we read of students transferring from less then wonderful non accredited schools (SCUPS) to regionally accredited NCU fully orchestrated by the latter.
    For what its worth, a friend joined SCUPS and in 9 months received his Doctoral degree in Law!! Yes, 9 months flat. No dissertation nothing.


    Quote

    http://www.ncu.edu/news/newsletter/10/columns/graduates_earl.htm

    "I then retired in 1993 and, after a while, got the crazy idea that maybe I should get the Ph.D. degree in psychology just for fun. I had no intention of working as a therapist, but the study intrigued me. It would be a good thing to do I decided. So after doing my customary nerdy study of the field and the schools, I enrolled initially at SCUPS, and later transferred to NCU for my dissertation.
    Earl Winter"
     
  11. Eli

    Eli New Member

    How do we expect the public not to look at online schools with skepticism when we read of students transferring from less then wonderful non accredited schools (SCUPS) to regionally accredited NCU fully orchestrated by the latter.
    For what its worth, a friend joined SCUPS and in 9 months received his Doctoral degree in Law!! Yes, 9 months flat. No dissertation nothing.


    Quote

    http://www.ncu.edu/news/newsletter/10/columns/graduates_earl.htm

    "I then retired in 1993 and, after a while, got the crazy idea that maybe I should get the Ph.D. degree in psychology just for fun. I had no intention of working as a therapist, but the study intrigued me. It would be a good thing to do I decided. So after doing my customary nerdy study of the field and the schools, I enrolled initially at SCUPS, and later transferred to NCU for my dissertation.
    Earl Winter"




     
  12. Eli

    Eli New Member

    How do we expect the public not to look at online schools with skepticism when we read of students transferring from less then wonderful non accredited schools (SCUPS) to regionally accredited NCU fully orchestrated by the latter.
    For what its worth, a friend joined SCUPS and in 9 months received his Doctoral degree in Law!! Yes, 9 months flat. No dissertation nothing.


    Quote

    http://www.ncu.edu/news/newsletter/10/columns/graduates_earl.htm

    "I then retired in 1993 and, after a while, got the crazy idea that maybe I should get the Ph.D. degree in psychology just for fun. I had no intention of working as a therapist, but the study intrigued me. It would be a good thing to do I decided. So after doing my customary nerdy study of the field and the schools, I enrolled initially at SCUPS, and later transferred to NCU for my dissertation.
    Earl Winter"
     
  13. Eli

    Eli New Member

    Apologies for the duplicate threads. The PC crashed twice while posting.

    Eli
     
  14. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    It is no surprise that SCUPS and NCU have a very similar syllabus. They were own by the same person weren't they? I am certain FSU and UF have very similar syllabi for their classes. I compared Florida Community College's ENC1101 to St Petersburg College's ENC1101 and guess what...same thing.

    As far as the quote,"I enrolled initially at SCUPS and later transferred to NCU for my dissertation.", do you know when this was written? Maybe it was before NCU earned their accreditation.

    I am not closing my eyes to the real issues of conflicting statements but lets not turn this into a witch hunt.

    And Ike asked, why are so many people on this forum enrolled in NCU. For me, they offered a concentration, the price was right, and TUI's PhD program was not accepting students.

    I have said I like my NCU experience better than my TUI experience so far. If NCU screws up and loses accreditation, I reserve my right to change that statement :D
     
  15. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    It is no surprise that SCUPS and NCU have a very similar syllabus. They were own by the same person weren't they? I am certain FSU and UF have very similar syllabi for their classes. I compared Florida Community College's ENC1101 to St Petersburg College's ENC1101 and guess what...same thing.

    As far as the quote,"I enrolled initially at SCUPS and later transferred to NCU for my dissertation.", do you know when this was written? Maybe it was before NCU earned their accreditation.

    I am not closing my eyes to the real issues of conflicting statements but lets not turn this into a witch hunt.

    And Ike asked, why are so many people on this forum enrolled in NCU. For me, they offered a concentration, the price was right, and TUI's PhD program was not accepting students.

    I have said I like my NCU experience better than my TUI experience so far. If NCU screws up and loses accreditation, I reserve my right to change that statement :D
     
  16. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

     
  17. bing

    bing New Member

    FSU and UF are both RA, though. There is no comparison here between those two and SCUPS-NCU. Maybe the question is did SCUPS get their stuff from NCU or did NCU get their stuff from SCUPS. Since both seem to have the same profs it is likely that they used what the profs came up with concurrently. I don't see much wrong with that to tell the truth. If Harvard MBA had a syllabus and Kennedy-Western copied it then I don't see anything wrong with that...permissions problems excluded.

    It may be true that the statement from this pschologist is from pre-accrediation days. Yet, I think it wrong to have such a statement on there now. Such a statement ties SCUPS and NCU together even closer in work that just ownership. It is tying their programs together.

    I picked NCU for the exact same reasons you did it appears.

    Many people apparently have a similar comment on NCU. I have chatted with a number of NCU students and they had positive things to say about the program they were in.

     
  18. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    NCU

    I too am not ready to trash any established business/school or otherwise based on what I've seen. The academic issue is transfer credits and I suspect NCU's policy changed after accreditation.

    As NCU's site makes clear for the PhD in Business Admin, "A maximum of 30 semester credits in related graduate courses may be accepted in transfer." I just got accepted at got the full 30 hours, yet I still have 51 to go. Even B & M schools uphold their own institutions brand by not accepting credits up to a certain point.

    It is impossible for this fellow to have transferred into NCU at the dissertation phase unless the 30 hour policy was broken. If NCU has reduced the standard only for their sister non-accredited school and hold all others by higher standards, then they will get their ticked pulled and lose accreditation I'd think. I simply refuse to believe these folks at NCU could be that stupid, and what's more, flagrant about their stupidity.

    I would GREATLY APPRECIATE NCU students posting any information coming from the administration. I assume that Bing's email was to him from the administration - he posted it up there somewhere and it appeared to be their first response.






    I'm still sitting here with an NCU and Nova acceptance. If NCU doesn't crap in their hat over this issue this week, I'll likely go with NCU and roll the dice.

    I'm still sitting here with an NCU and Nova acceptance. If NCU doesn't crap in their hat over this issue this week, I'll likely go with NCU and roll the dice.
     
  19. bing

    bing New Member

    Re: NCU

    This could possibly be true. The fellow could have come in by the appropriate gate. He may have transferred into NCU because they received accreditation and he needed that for personal gains. We only have a little snippet of a story and don't have the facts relating to him.

    I would hope that NCU didn't reduce the standards for the man. How will we know if they did? Will NCA launch an investigation to see if this was the case or not? Have other RA schools accepted credits from non-accrediteds in the past?

    I'm waiting to see what happens at this point but would love to hear from other NCU students on the forum. NCU achieved something remarkable with their accreditation...being one of only two schools to do so thus far. It would be a shame to see it whacked.

     
  20. Ike

    Ike New Member

    Re: NCU


    One of my reasons for refraining from endorsing my alma mater intensely here is that once enrolled, you have only about 70% (perhaps lower) chance of completing many of the school’s doctoral programs, especially doctoral programs in computer science and business. I don't know much about Nova doctoral programs in education.
    Most students prefer to choose a school that guarantees almost 100% completion rate upfront. Definitely that won’t happen if you choose Nova. In addition, the program could last for more than five years.
    Nova's tuition is unequivocally exorbitant. For me, tuition wasn't a problem because it was reimbursed almost fully. I believe that if your goal is to teach fulltime upon completion of your program, a Nova doctorate degree will be very useful.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2005

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