NCU dissertations

Are we comparing all dissertations at NCU to all dissertations at other schools ... an apples to oranges comparison? Or are we comparing NCU business dissertations to other business dissertations? NCU education dissertations to other education dissertations? NCU psychology dissertations to other psychology dissertations? Let's just make sure we're comparing apples to apples, people!

 

Agreed.

BTW - As a numbers guy, I love your statistical analysis.

 

Maybe they just more similar than dissertations from other school, and are all from the particular, shorter category? Like quantitative vs. qualitative?

 

It really comes down to the expectations of the institution. I happen to know the author of the shortest dissertation in the Arizona State list and have read this person's dissertation. It used a research design not unlike the one that I used in my own study, yet mine was over three times longer. Why? Well, the ASU dissertation contained a fairly brief introduction and literature review chapter and had almost no appendix. The statistical tables showed only the final results and significant differences, rather than detailed ANOVA, MANOVA and post-hoc tables. This dissertation could easily have been twice as long if these things were included.

The dissertation chair happens to be one of the top researchers in his discipline. An article based on the dissertation was published, nearly without modification, in one of the most prestigious journals in the field and the person who wrote the dissertaiton is now a respected professor who has authored books and many journal articles.

When I first read the dissertation, I wondered, "Is that all there is?" However, I find it difficult to argue with success.

 

Some time ago I remember reading about the first U.S. PhD dissertation written. Here are the details.

http://www1.umn.edu/oit/newsletter/0400-itn/disseration.html

"The first U.S. Ph.D. program was established in 1860 at Yale University. And the first dissertation recorded was by James Morris Whiton in 1861. Titled Ars longa, brevis vita, the dissertation was handwritten and only six pages long."

 

Ironic - similar to a recent conversation I was involved in on another board. We were talking about variations in dissertation length (thesis in UK) and that the pure sciences seem to produce the shortest dissertations. Remember John Nash ("Beautiful Mind") wrote a 27 page dissertation on Game Theory for his Princeton PhD.

Evaluating doctoral programs based on the length of dissertations is to me like comparing novelists based on the number of pages in their novels. I'm concerned with the quality of research and presentation in the dissertations and not on an arbitrary item such as length.

 

If almost all of a school's dissertations were hard science-based or published by a disproportionably large number of John Nash-type minds, then I might tend to agree. But when looking a the averages among social research, psychology, education and business-based dissertations (not hard sciences) in comparison to other mainstream universities and PhD students, I tend to think that average dissertation length is a relevant, but not exclusive, indicator.

On an individual dissertation basis, I fully agree with your statement; however, that is not what the data or analysis examined.

Tom

 

Re: Re: NCU Dissertations

Does anyone know the average length of an NCU dissertation?

 

Hello All,

Please excuse my noob-type of posting numbers. I have followed this forum for a while and I TRULY enjoy it.

However, as I was reading this subject I have had MANY things cross my mind. The first is that I see many people offering advice on how to get the quickest degree (other posts) through testing. Many of the B & M hardcore would say that those degrees are "cheating" and somehow are not worth the same as having a longer degree earned by sitting in class. Or perhaps those who say "that those with PhDs without seat time are not TRULY doctors." Those PhD holders from (lets' say) BYU have 100's of pages because they were exposed to different ideas/projects sitting through a traditional classroom at a traditional college with a cohort (or maybe being stuck as a research assistant for an ambitious professor). Perhaps, a purely on-line degree will lend itself to a more succinct dissertation due to the fact that the academic fluff is removed and there is a really good core of substance involved. BTW, for those who do not know me - I am faculty at a traditional B&M college attempting DL. I am not sure what MY thoughts are about the process.

I also can not help but to think that many things we do in academia (at least at my college) are done because "it has always been that way." We have passed students with crappy 300 page dissertations (with suspect stats/designs) as well as passing brillant candidates with a dissertation with 85 pages - beauty (quality) is in the eye of the beholder. There are times where traditional politics (and how one plays it) dictates how "fast" one graduates vs. quality of their disseration/process.

Finally, (sorry for blabbing - I am tired) I usually tell my students that not many people will see your disseration - they WILL see any research published in top tier journals that may crop from it! So, with this all being said, it is my humble opinion that someone who holds a PhD needs to have some basic skills in research/design/and statistical understanding. HECK - many of my buds have PAID someone to do their stats for them! - unthinkable I know

Just wanted to chime in this excellent conversation!

peACE,

ACE

 

Re: Re: NCU Dissertations

Does anyone know the average length of an NCU dissertation?

 

Re: Re: Re: NCU Dissertations

Tom's sample above yielded an average of 126 pages.

 

aceman's post

aceman,

Your comment about stats chicanery piqued my curiosity. Have you seen a lot of that? Do PhD students do that because their command of stats is shaky, or out of sloth?

 

Another question:

I notice that the NCU dissertations being compared date back to 2003. I note that as of BG15 (2003), NCU was still unaccredited. NCU is now accredited. When did they become accredited? Is there a difference in the length of the new, accredited NCU dissertations vs. the old, unaccredited NCU dissertations? Is this 126-page average including the non-dissertation joint Vietnamese NCU DBAs (which, by definition, would be 0 pages and drag down the average significantly)?

 

Hello Doug,

The answer to your question is some of both. I work in the Psychology Department. Most of our students are great at design and at the literature search but are weak at understanding which stats will represent their data best. There are others who can not tell what is a good significance! The most recent candidate utilized a Mann-Whitney procedure when the situation called for Wilcoxon test (due to comparing two paired groups). Other than that - his dissertation was wonderful (in scope and design). I have some students who are unable to properly explain confounding variables, etc. I often will read a LONG dissertation that was written in hopes of BSing their way through their poor work. I also blame this type of situation on Dissertation Chairs. The Chair should have NEVER allowed the candidate to get that far (to the defense); thus, my comments about politics (alive and well at my B&M)!

On a humble note, I understand stats on a basic level BUT I also dole out the stats part to someone more adept at it (I hated math THUS I became a shrink !) I can empathize with my students.

Anyhow, I find this topic interesting and I am looking forward to read more about it.

peACE,

ACE

 

Re: Re: but have you controlled for discipline?

While business, education, and psychology might not be as "hard" as math, chemistry, or physics, beither are they as "soft" as history, literature, and philosophy.

 

Re: Re: but have you controlled for discipline?

Now, if only we would go back and compare business dissertations to business dissertations, education dissertations to education dissertations, and psychology dissertations to psychology dissertations, then we will have an actual apples to apples (or oranges to oranges) comparison.

 

Ted,

I'm not exactly sure when NCU obtained its full accreditation. However, I assume the dissertations submitted at least a year or two prior to that date would have been at an optimal level in anticipation of the accreditation review and possible scrutiny. In fact, the dissertations published before 2004 were some the largest in terms of page counts. Therefore, I would be reluctant to remove any of them from the sample or suggest that the older dissertations diluted the overall average number of pages.

Additionally, the sample (census) included all 45 NCU dissertations published to date by UMI/Proquest. The data and analysis provided at the URL link listed in my original post clearly shows the correct average for all 45 dissertations and nothing else. Therefore, the presented average and subsequent analysis of the mean is an actual representation of the current population of NCU dissertations.

Tom

 

Re: Re: Re: but have you controlled for discipline?

"Hard sciences" (note the parentheses) is just a common term to differentiate a specific group of disciplines from the "soft" social sciences. Is was not meant to serve as designation of difficulty (you notice that "soft" sciences are not called "easy" sciences).

Academic rigor in a discipline, or the dissertations generated by it, varies, of course, from discipline to discipline and from college to college. I have seen some very rigorous history, business, education and psychology dissertations that rival some "hard science" dissertations that I have read.

By the way, Northcentral University was awarded accreditation by NCA in 2003.

Cheers.

 

Hello All,

I JUST got off the phone with Dr. Robert Haussmann. He is a full-time faculty member of NCU in the psychology department. He has been there since 1999. He informed me that the process of dissertations has changed considerably since accredidation. He specifically states that the amount of time dedicated to the process has increased from 7 to 8 courses. He added that some students are in the "old way" of doing coursework while ALL the newer students are under the newer format). He also informed me that the length (as well as the quality) of the dissertations have increased since 2003 (I have NOT verified this - but it would be interesting to see if this is statistically true).

Also, being a newer school, I would assume that a process would evolve that would refine their "products" (as I stated earlier - it would be a cool analysis to see if there is a divide between the two time periods).

Anyhow, I thought this was interesting enough to follow up on it.

peACE,

ACE

 

So, of the NCU dissertations being compared, how many were "old way" dissertations and how many were "new way" dissertations? Since it seems that the "new way" was not required until accreditation was achieved in 2003, and since it seems that there are some "old way" dissertations being finished up, and since it usually takes a good two or three years to finish the coursework aspect of a doctoral program and another year or two to do the dissertation, one would not expect "new way" dissertations to start coming out until 2006 or 2008.