California Coast Iniversity degree

This thread has once again opened up the RA, non-RA debate which appears to happen regularly in distance learning circles because non-RA is predominately DL whereas RA is predominately residential with significant DL opportunities.

With good non-RA in the DL setting you may learn something and thus receive an education. Nonetheless, lets face it, a non-RA credential will definitely not open up many doors for you. In academia acceptance is practically nill and in industry the large corporations I am familiar with, including mine, require RA degrees. I have had CCU resumes cross my desk and cannot accept them because they are not RA due to company policies. Whereas I can get a waiver and accept a job candidate with good experience and no degree. In this instance the non-RA degree is a liability.

The posts by Barry Foster and others supporting RA are to let those know the risks in earning non-RA credentials.

On the plus side of non-RA credentials (from the good non-RA schools) if I wanted to follow a structured educational program and view the program as increasing my skills through this method I would consider a program. However, I would not post such a degree on my resume (The exception here would be if the non-RA program did qualify the degree holder to sit for a licensure.) In my own case, I have considered the California Pacific University MBA program as a means to do independent study in business. I would view the program which is very business focused and state approved as one that would further my business acumen and I could apply it on the job but I would view my RA degrees as the degrees that open the doors for the job opportunities.

John

 

I disagree wholeheartedly on both points.

First, many prospective students come to this board, about to spend big bucks and years of life-energy earning a degree. S/he deserve the opportunity to understand the concept of accreditation, and how it might affect his/her life. You might like to call it obsession, but I call it providing accurate information. Armed with information, the prospective student can make an intelligent decision. Sticking one's head in the sand re: accreditation creates nothing but problems. It is especially important when others promote at-risk schools - without telling the whole story.

Second, RA is not the right term. Accreditation is the right term. RA, DETC, state approved (a lame variant which I personally feel disguises consumer risk), GAAP, etc. are all variants and colors of accreditation.

Barry Foster

 

As always, John has done an excellent job of summarizing - helping to flesh out the conversation. I agree wholeheartedly with his points. He describes a situation where - as a consumer - he is making an informed choice.

Plus, John adds the important bit about resume content. I'd take a step further. I'd avoid even using the title.

Barry Foster

 

I took a bunch of CCU "classes", (11, if I remember correctly). All were open book NONE were proctored they assumed I did the work but how would they know? And frankly, open book is not really work is it? At least with CLEP and Dantes you need to take a proctered exam and they DO know who you are.

I still have my tests and grades I guess I could give them to others and they would get the same grades with NO work (hopefully they have changed the exams since I took mine), but the problem still exists, their system of "testing" is at best flawed. Learning does not have to occur at all.

Dan Snelson
B.S. degree soon from COSC (final class in progress) for about the same price as CCU!

 

The organization I work for refused to contribute with the CCU tuition. On the other hand, they paid 50% of Touro University International's tuition (RA school). Even DETC are not accepted in my org.

Eli

 

I'd be happy to. As mentioned previously, I was in The Fielding Institute's PhD prgram in HOD. There were some things that made this a poor fit for me: 1) I often found that the institute's culture didn't match my own values; 2) the program was extremely expensive operating on the principle of a taxi meter; 3) I wasn't enamoured of the learning contract model, although I was very successful with it; and, 4) there seemed to be little value in the cluster meetings, such that I really preferred to work independently.

In making a change I needed to consider several things: Firstly, I definitely wanted a DBA rather than a PhD. Secondly, economics loomed large, since I had two kids in college back then. Next, I wanted a structured program rather than a learning contracts model, but one also based on adult learning concepts. And, finally, the program had to be DL with no residency, given my financial, work, and time obligations.

In ME where I live, U of Maine did not offer a business degree beyond the MBA, nor did any of the private colleges. The closest were the Harvard and Boston University DBAs in MA--well over 200 miles away.

The two RA DL choices at the time were Nova (before it became Nova Southeastern) and Walden. Walden offered a Phd, so I eliminated it, but not before speaking to the Dean of a business college who was a Walden PhD alumnus. In talking with alumni referals provided by Nova, they seemed satisfied if not overly enthused. At my company, coincidentally, there were three Nova DBA candidates (i.e., all the dissertation stage). Their comments about the program were unanimously negative if not angry. The chief complaint among others was the lack of communication, guidance, and support in trying to complete the dissertation which had turned into a prolonged ordeal for all. They could not recommend that I apply, given the difficulties and frustration they were encountering there.

Today's on-line doctoral programs like Capella, UoP, and Touro hadn't yet been invented. Had they been around, I probably would have checked them out, but they are also quite expense as we know. I would speculate that they would have failed my economics criterion.

I then began looking at CA state-approved schools. In evaluating them, I set up a comparative matrix including everything from year of founding to cost along with everything in between using their literature. I also interviewed the schools by phone. And, I asked John Bear for his opinion too.

Kennedy-Western (the only non-approved school in the mix) was eliminated immediately for lack of credibility. California Coast was eliminated next, not because of any negative findings, but because at that time they offered a PhD only--the DBA wasn't added till a few years later. (The present CCU DBA is non-research based, which would have caused me to reject it out of hand had it existed when I was assessing options.) As you can probably guess, SCUPS was eliminated next, since their DBA was and remains course-based only.

That left California Pacific. It was DL CA-approved, reasonably priced, had no residency, offered a structured program, and required all the major traditional elements--an earned MBA, 12 courses, a proctored comprehensive exam, a proposal, and the doctoral project. It was a good match for my needs. So I enrolled, did the work, completed the program, and earned the degree.

Did I go through a deep psychological trauma, having two RA degrees and taking on a CA-approved program? Hardly! My interest was to do something for my own educational benefit. I knew at the outset I would not be parlaying the unaccredited doctorate for a position in academia. I also recognized that any DBA degree is neither sought not rewarded in the business setting. So I did it for me, enjoyed it thoroughly, and am glad of it! Not everyone will agree with me, and not everybody would have made the same informed choice. But that's OK. It's what personal freedom is all about.

 

Thanks Dave! You sure did your homework!

Barry Foster

 

You've stipulated that you're only interested in the knowledge, that the degree has no value for entry into academic positions, and that cost and convenience was an issue.

When someone says something like this to justify an unaccredited degree, I have to wonder why they don't just go to the library or to amazon.com, order the books of interest, and roll your own program (or follow the curriculum of another school). You can then cap it off with whatever project you choose.

This solves the cost and convenience problem, the accreditation is neither better nor worse, has the same academic standing, and the knowledge you gain can be any fraction or multiple of the CPU program that you choose. (Who is CPU to tell you when you're done on your personal learning journey?)

The title associated with an unaccredited degree has the same practical value as the degree itself (none in academia). Of course, this can be of no concern for you since you were only in it for the knowledge, right, Dr. Dave?

 

When someone says something like this to justify an unaccredited degree, I have to wonder why they don't just go to the library or to amazon.com, order the books of interest, and roll your own program (or follow the curriculum of another school). You can then cap it off with whatever project you choose.

The title associated with an unaccredited degree has the same practical value as the degree itself (none in academia). Of course, this can be of no concern for you since you were only in it for the knowledge, right, Dr. Dave?[/B][/QUOTE]


It is certainly true that somebody could go to the library to extensively study a topic if they were so inclinded. I happen instead to enjoy the discipline of a more structured, formalized, and challenging approach. The Fielding Institute's learning contract approach is probably the next best thing to going to the library and doing it on your own. Been there, done that, and found it unsatisfying. Others are entrhalled with that approach, so I'm not being critical. It's just not my preferred learning style. Who knows--it might not be yours either.

As to the title "doctor": I don't use it in my work. If a stranger addresses me that way, I simply say "You can call me Dave." It's just more friendly. That's not to say I do not have the right to use "doctor" if I wish to do so. Any recipient of a CA-approved doctorate may legitimately use that prefix. Oregon has some prohibitions in that regard, California Pacific not being among them.

Cheers,
Dave

Dave

 

[QUOTE} ... All were open book ... [/QUOTE]

Many people seem to equate open book exams with easy. Professional Engineer exams are all open book, but they ar far from easy (just check the pass/fail rates). They are proctored, and you do have to prove who you are.




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M. C. (Mike) Albrecht, PE

 

Of course, you are not precluded from following an established curriculum, as I suggested earlier, or having structure and discipline of your own design. The level of challenge is yours to choose as well. You can also validate your project through publication in part in academic journals.

 

Perhaps this describes how you opted to use learning contracts at Fielding. Experiences of Fielding students differ dramatically - depending on their choice. Many create a very collaborative experience by including faculty, students, clusters, seminars, other educational/work experiences, etc. Fielding's learning contracts are intentially flexible.

How long did you stay with Fielding before moving on? How many KAs did you complete?

Barry Foster
(Who knows a tad about Fielding)

 

Barry, I was at Fielding for about a year and a half or so and did two KAs. Prior to that I attended the orientation and admissions contract workshop at Santa Barbara, of course. I also attended a spring research session and a summer session (both in my geographic area fortunately, so no travel). As mentioned, I often frequented the cluster, which was fairly local. The two KAs I completed were Inquiry & Research and the other Leadership & Management. I had also done considerable prep on Theories of Personality before I left. While certain facets of Fielding didn't suit me, in fairness I should add that there were also many enthusiastic students there obviously in their perfect element.

I found that choosing the right doctoral program was far more difficult than selecting an undergraduate school or comparing several catalogues to decide on an MBA program. I had been fairly interested in Nova and considered enrolling until I got very negative feedback (as mentioned above) and perhaps "missed a speeding bullet". With Fielding, granted all education is valuable; but in retrospect it seems as though it was a false start for me--wrong degree, wrong school as it turned out. In the end, CalPacific turned out well.

As I've read these boards (and the alt.education.distance before this one), I would see people struggling mightily, sometimes for long periods of time, over the selection of the doctoral program right for them. Newer entrants continue to do that. As methodical as one tries to be, there are many unknowns, risks, and no guarantees. Furthermore, some things aren't really apparent and revealed until you're there.

Dave

 

Well. The part I have a hardtime with is you say that 2 well respected and accredited programs just weren't right for you but a state approved school with a tarnished one was. That may be true for you, but for 99 people out of 100 it would be the exact opposite. State approved is typically going to be the last and least useful choice. I am glad it apparently worked for you but I would not want anyone else to be miss led.

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Best Regards,
Dave Hayden

 

Well, I guess you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm not at all sure that you represent the other 99 out of 100 people either.