California Coast Iniversity degree

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Randell1234, Dec 6, 2001.

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  1. barryfoster

    barryfoster New Member

     
  2. StahlCon

    StahlCon New Member

    I completed the CCU B.S. in Business in 1998, and their MBA program in 1999. My experience is limited to private industry, and know precious little about the degrees utility in other areas. I have not had any problems with it so far, although to be fair I have been very blessed in that I have my own company which is a supplier to the auto industry, and have not needed the degree to seek employment. I too had completed two RA associate degrees while in the military, and, like the gentleman which started this post, wanted to complete my education. Back in 1996 when I was looking into DL, CCU seemed a good alternative in terms of cost and, especially time! However, I did not fully understand the difference between State Approval and RA.

    Those at the company I supply to have no problem with my background(as long as profits remain high!)and have even given me kudos for furthering my education. Although I think that they view all DL about the same, the only thing standing out as far as education being ivy leauge.

    In my own experience, which I have related before on this discussion group, A CCU degree in these times is somewhat akin to being a Warrant Officer in the army. Yes, you are an officer, yes, enlisted men have to salute you and you have better accomodations and privileges, but any junior officer still outranks you. (in this model, anyone with an RA degree)This of course is judging soley by degrees and not by efficency or value to the company, in which MUCH greater rank is available. When the powers that be want your degree to matter it will, and when they don't it won't make much difference at all, even if you had a RA Masters. No degree is going to make useful or even rich. You have to do it on your own.

    CCU has provided an need for furthering education by distance since the 1970's, when there were precious few alternatives available. However, RA is now the benchmark and would be the better choice if I were starting over again as it would provide much more utility over the long haul.(Another example is CCU as a company that makes brand new 8-track players. It is a great little machine but, obviously there are limits as to what you can play on it!)However, I wouldn't apologize for a CCU degree either. It does provide a good education, at a very reasonable cost. Congratulations on your degree!

    Best to All,
    Mike Stahl
     
  3. Ee

    Ee New Member

     
  4. barryfoster

    barryfoster New Member

     
  5. Dr Dave

    Dr Dave New Member

    Reply to Barryfoster concerning my California Pacific University DBA:

    In the world of business (unlike those seeking tenure track teaching positions) it makes no real difference whether someone has a Havard DBA or a CalPacific DBA. The executive "union card" so to speak is still the MBA from a high profile RA program. Position specifications in fact never call for a DBA. Consequently, the degree is not required or rewarded per se. Success is instead measured by achievement of strategic plan goals and other key business measurements.

    Secondly, late career executives who have mortgages, families, and lifestyles to support, along with maintaining and advancing their careers, are not often in a position to abandon those obligations in order to do long residencies in traditional RA doctoral programs which are invariably aimed at research and teaching, areas not of interest to professional practitioners. Again, not that longer ago there were far fewer program options than are now available.

    Your concern about jokes at the water cooler about nontraditional doctorates has never caused me to lose any sleep at night. In my years I've encountered legions of managers who earned BAs or BSs eons ago to pay their educational "dues". They rigidly dismiss the life-long learning concept and show little or no professional development to their credit. The mathematical probabilities tell me that the preponderance of snickerers would be from that group, meaning the joke is actually on them.

    My credentials include an RA BA and MBA from very well-known schools, an RA Advanced Certificate in Management from one of those same well-known schools, a state-approved DBA, and three management certifications all in good standing. It may strike you as odd, but I have never once been called upon to apologize for, justify, or defend my credentials. Nor do I expect to. I guess it comes down to the fact that I am an independent thinker who is quite confident and self-assured. I undertook the CalPacific DBA to please myself, not to impress others.

    Although I would not advise people to do nontraditional undergraduate degrees, a nontraditional doctorate can offen meet the needs of the mature mid- or late-career professional exceedingly well.
     
  6. barryfoster

    barryfoster New Member

    Dr Dave,

    Since you did attend Fielding for a time, I'm sure you understand that there are RA "nontraditional" options available at the doctorate level. Like Nova's DBA.

    Unfortunately, both your posts in this thread are in defense of your degree. Your perfect record has ended.

    Again folks, I'm not making these points to argue or degrade educational credentials. I'm certain that many non-RA programs take a lot of work and are a major accomlishment. Again, I'm sorry if I've offended. However, this is what folks can expect to experience with such a credential.

    Barry Foster
     
  7. Dr Dave

    Dr Dave New Member

    No, I'm merely responding to your earlier comments by giving additional background information and advocating a position. If I had a degree mill degree, that would be different; however, the CalPacific DBA happens to be a legitimate degree. For that reason, I can simply speak freely of a life choice sensibly made which might benefit others.
     
  8. barryfoster

    barryfoster New Member

    Dr Dave: I firmly believe in individual right to make life choices. At the same time, it is very important to me that individuals have sufficient information to make an informed life choice. I get the sense that you made an informed life choice and I applaud your hard work and accomplishments!

    However, you appear to be making my case for me - which is an important point to my argument. You have defended your degree in this thread.

    For the readers and so we can have a common language, one of Webster's definitions for "defense" is:

    "An argument in support or justification."

    I'd suggest that your posts are in support or justification of your non-RA degree. Some well-written examples include:

    QUOTE: "I earned the CalPacific DBA in 1996. Because I chose to remain within the business realm, the DBA, of course, was never a huge value added--nor did I expect it to be. Nevertheless, I have found the degree to be accepted and respected."

    QUOTE: "At a personal level, the DBA serves mostly as a validation of my work and career, exactly as intended. And never once, should I add, have I deemed it to be a "ticking time bomb". Why should I? The degree is state approved and perfectly legal, including in Oregon, unlike some of California Coast's degrees."

    QUOTE: "In sum, the CalPacific DBA has enabled me to better meet my late career objectives. In that respect, I am totally satisfied and cannot say enough for it. If folks here want to extol RA doctorates for those looking to enter or advance in academia, I would agree. The argument and/or advice, however, does not necessarily apply to well established executives in business and industry."

    QUOTE: "n the world of business (unlike those seeking tenure track teaching positions) it makes no real difference whether someone has a Havard DBA or a CalPacific DBA. The executive "union card" so to speak is still the MBA from a high profile RA program. Position specifications in fact never call for a DBA. Consequently, the degree is not required or rewarded per se. Success is instead measured by achievement of strategic plan goals and other key business measurements."

    Both posts are filled with justification of your non-RA DBA. I've got no problem with that .... not at all. As well, I'm advocating a position (a defense). However, I think it's important to call it what it is. Both posts are defending your degree.

    In fact, I'll go one further. This last post is defending your defense.

    Dr. Dave, I'm not attempting to belittle your impressive educational credentials or your apparent success in the biz. world. Nor am I suggesting that people shouldn't choose the program that is right for the particular life journey they have chosen. I am advocating the harsh reality that countless individuals experience - directly due to non-RA degrees. Many non-RA students graduate, expecting the degree to offer much more utility than it can.

    Barry Foster
     
  9. Howard

    Howard New Member

    Dr Dave:
    In the real world of academia and the higher levels of business you would have a difficult time proving that there is a difference in a non-R/A degree and a diploma from a degree mill.

    Sorry, not down on your school, but that is just the way it is.

    ------------------
    Howard Rodgers
     
  10. Dr Dave

    Dr Dave New Member

    QUOTE: Many non-RA students graduate, expecting the degree to offer much more utility than it can.

    Barry Foster[/B][/QUOTE]

    Barry, it's also true that many students graduating with RA BAs (hopefully) also are disappointed when their degrees fail to open particular doors or to seemingly lack impact in the job market. Check advice boards at major job websites and you'll see this theme frequently.

    But we need to acknowledge too that in addition to the degree, there are many other variables including the state of the economy, globalization, unemployment rate, unique geographical factors, decline of certain industries, jobs changing or being eliminated by technology, competition within the applicant pool, skills requirements, the experience requirement, chemistry between the applicant and interviewer, quality of references, luck, etc., etc. The degree as a qualification is but one important component of many in a very complex mix.

    In my own case (and for others at the same late career stage), I view the DBA as an "extra", virtually never required by any employer--i.e., the BA, nearly always; the MBA, sometimes; and the DBA virtually never. So while someone with an undergraduate degree (which I again assert should always be RA) might indeed be knocked out of the running due to offering a nontraditional degree, the chance of anyone being disqualified for having a nontraditional doctorate (not required in business in the first place) is really slim to none. I would love to think that a Harvard DBA degree would hone an MBA holder's competitive edge, but in the business setting, I'm afraid not. Obversely, I would admit that any DBA, RA or otherwise, might conceivably cause the candidate to be viewed as "overqualified"--a real risk.

    The other point I would make, and I doubt you will disagree, is that a degree basically acts as a ticket to the dance so to speak. Once admitted, the focus and emphasis then shift swiftly to the candidate's performance. And that applies to people working at any level in the organization. A related point, also widely acknowledged, is that the further one progresses in his career, what becomes increaslingly and predominantly important is experience, track record, and a progressive job history--not degrees, which by then are often ancient. Finally, that last sentence reminds me that all degrees should be written in disappearing ink to enforce the life-long learning model.
     
  11. Dr Dave

    Dr Dave New Member

     
  12. BlackWolf

    BlackWolf New Member

    I've never given my two cents on this message board about topics such as this. Nonetheless, I'm going to weigh in. Sometimes I feel the views expressed here are
    too negative against legitimate non-RA learning at the graduate level. And please! before anyone jumps down my throat here me out. I do have an RA A.S.,B.S,M.A, and graduate certificate. I have worked in an RA university setting particularly where I earned my degrees. And at each school there were few non-RA degreed faculty and staff. However, I never once heard anyone ridicule those non-RA faculty or staff. To the contrary if any jokes were ever made it was often the other way around. Such as RA versus RA and not so much from the elitist but from the rank and file who could hardly believe that some one from a 1st or excellent 2nd tier university who paid $100,000+ for their graduate degree particularly the PH.D. would work for $18,000 to $30,000 per year. And the reasons not be associated with a lack of experience and/or love of profession. But merely a having a job! Granted I live in the south and in an area where there are several community colleges and universities. In conclusion I can remember many tenured professors stating that while RA maybe the standard, they were certainly not against a legitimate non-RA school or program that could get anyone in the end where they want arrive. As for the hiring ratio many of my former colleagues felt that if the pressures put on colleges and universities from the regional accreditors themselves the school I worked probably would have hired even more non-RA faculty, researcher, and the like if qualified. Especially due to increased work loads, greater demands to write grants, publish books/articles, etc.

    I do want emphsize that I believe affirmatively that RA is the nations gold standard. However, there clearly is niche for other legitimate means of educating oneself to earn and education, obtain employment, or merely obtain knowledge for personal growth and enhancement.

    Thank You, And Please Note That I Will Probably Never Weigh In On Such Issues Again.I enjoy the commentary of others.
     
  13. BlackWolf

    BlackWolf New Member

    I've never given my two cents on this message board about topics such as this. Nonetheless, I'm going to weigh in. Sometimes I feel the views expressed here are
    too negative against legitimate non-RA learning at the graduate level. And please! before anyone jumps down my throat here me out. I do have an RA A.S.,B.S,M.A, and graduate certificate. I have worked in an RA university setting particularly where I earned my degrees. And at each school there were few non-RA degreed faculty and staff. However, I never once heard anyone ridicule those non-RA faculty or staff. To the contrary if any jokes were ever made it was often the other way around. Such as RA versus RA and not so much from the elitist but from the rank and file who could hardly believe that some one from a 1st or excellent 2nd tier university who paid $100,000+ for their graduate degree particularly the PH.D. would work for $18,000 to $30,000 per year. And the reasons not be associated with a lack of experience and/or love of profession. But merely a having a job! Granted I live in the south and in an area where there are several community colleges and universities. In conclusion I can remember many tenured professors stating that while RA maybe the standard, they were certainly not against a legitimate non-RA school or program that could get anyone in the end where they want arrive. As for the hiring ratio many of my former colleagues felt that if the pressures put on colleges and universities from the regional accreditors themselves the school I worked probably would have hired even more non-RA faculty, researcher, and the like if qualified. Especially due to increased work loads, greater demands to write grants, publish books/articles, etc.

    I do want emphsize that I believe affirmatively that RA is the nations gold standard. However, there clearly is niche for other legitimate means of educating oneself to earn and education, obtain employment, or merely obtain knowledge for personal growth and enhancement.

    Thank You, And Please Note That I Will Probably Never Weigh In On Such Issues Again.I enjoy the commentary of others.
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Gee, I wonder why that is? Perhaps it is because schools that are not properly accredited are not considered part of this nation's higher educational system. Or perhaps it is because the number of bad unaccredited schools grossly outweighs the number of good ones. (This group tends to talk about just a few; are there really any others? I don't think so anymore.)

    Rich Douglas
     
  15. barryfoster

    barryfoster New Member

    If I may ask, why did you opt for a non-RA DBA - esp. in light of your educational background?

    Barry Foster
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The organization I work for does check out credentials and insists that they be accredited (not necessarily RA). They will take DETC. In the case of foreign schools they are either in a book the organization has compiled (I do not know where they go it from) or you must get a foreign credential evaluator to give their stamp of approval. Foreign credential evaluators must be chosen from a list provided by the organization.

    This a case where an unaccredited degree will get you the left foot of fellowship.

    North

     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The organization I work for does check out credentials and insists that they be accredited (not necessarily RA). They will take DETC. In the case of foreign schools they are either in a book the organization has compiled (I do not know where they got it from) or you must get a foreign credential evaluator to give their stamp of approval. Foreign credential evaluators must be chosen from a list provided by the organization.

    This a case where an unaccredited degree will get you the left foot of fellowship.

    North

     
  18. Ee

    Ee New Member

     
  19. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    "It is definitely not right to purchase a degree with no work done. This is fraudent from the start."

    It has been stated in another thread that a student was able to purchase a CCU degree with no work done. In this thread one poster explained they have open book tests. It is clear that anyone trying to pass a CCU degree off as a College/University degree is trying to commit fraud. That is why it is acceptable to Businesses only when they don't realize what it is and never to Colleges and University.

    ------------------
    Best Regards,
    Dave Hayden
     
  20. Ee

    Ee New Member

     

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