Get Ready for the Parasites!!!

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Veteran101, Apr 24, 2005.

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  1. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    New York taxes or Tennessee taxes? What of an IBM Field Engineer working in Tennessee?
     
  2. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Supply-side is not in and of itself garbage nor is demand-side in and of itself garbage. You can supply all you want of a good or service, but if there's no demand for what you're offering, you'd better be looking for a new livelihood (unless, of course, you're already so rich that you don't have to work). You can demand a product or service all you want, but if it isn't being supplied, you aren't getting any of it (or else maybe this should be your cue about your market niche). As for whether government economic policies should be stimulating the supply side, the demand side, both, or neither, I leave that to those far more knowledgeable than I; but this much I do know: you can't have one without the other.
     
  3. BinkWile

    BinkWile New Member

    Are you serious? Do you know what this man's property taxes are like? In states like TN, NH, and TX, one pays no state income taxes, but have to pay higher property taxes.

    Also, you're going to punish this man because he has worked hard and has a higher than average salary for the loacality he lives in???
     
  4. BinkWile

    BinkWile New Member

    Are you serious? Do you know what this man's property taxes are like? In states like TN, NH, and TX, one pays no state income taxes, but have to pay higher property taxes.

    Also, you're going to punish this man because he has worked hard and has a higher than average salary for the loacality he lives in???
     
  5. Veteran101

    Veteran101 New Member

    Ole 57

    Tom,
    Time to put down the bong and come back to reality.
    The man lives in Tennessee, no income tax but higher sales taxes, etc to make up a shortfall. There is an old saying sales, income, user, etc. Each state will find a way to screw you equally. Lived in 8 different states due to tranfer and it all washes out.

    Higher than average NY salary and benefits??? I gather you have never worked outside of California or for an out of state company.
    I have worked for a Chicago company for 17+ years. Lived in 8 different states and have always had a salary that paid as to what the position scale was entitled. For example, when transfered from WV to NJ, I received a high cost of living increase.
    When I transfered from IL (Chicago) to GA, I lost the increase. When transfered from NJ to IL actually lost money, though both cost the same to live.

    As far as the rest of us paying our state income taxes, TN does.
    Just like GA, CA, etc. I guess it is unfortunate that California, along with its New York cousin does such a wonderful job in state business that you are slightly angry with your 9+% income tax, 7,8, and 9+% sales taxes, outlandish gas taxes, etc. You figure the rest of the country should be an equal mess.

    Oh yes, this is not an opportunity to bash Blue states, though most of the states in a fiscal mess are blue, there are plenty of Red's who can share in the joy of having greasy politicians at the helm.
     
  6. The question I'd ask is where is his corporate office?

    If he has a desk/cube/phone, etc. based in an office somewhere in TN (even if he's on the road 90%+ of the time) then he should be considered to be working out of TN. I'd also say that if he had a home office required for his job that has a phone line dedicated to work that would be showing a presence in TN likely sufficient for the IRS, and hopefully then any state government.

    If, however, his cube (or if he doesn't have one - phone extension) is based in Armonk or somewhere else in NY then he's likely working out of NY, even though he's not physically living in NY.

    Otherwise, if I'm say in FL for 2 weeks meeting with customers, does this mean that for those 2 weeks I shouldn't pay NY State tax? I'm not actually working in NY for those 2 weeks...

    In the firm I work at (a large multinational software company based in NY) we've done away with "working from home" status. Everyone gets assigned a cube/phone in the closest company office to keep things clear, even if that person does actually telecommute a fair bit.

    Obviously this is an oversimplification and no doubt there are other factors. I do agree, however, that NY does try and get its hands into everything possible...

    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  7. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Could have something to do with the Infinite Revenue Service. In my last years with the company I retired from we had to declare a certain number of personal miles on our company cars. Didn't matter if you actually used those miles.

    My (yeah, right) company was also one of those that would overfund the pension plan when the money was there. The Infinite Revenue folks made them, and similar companies, cut that out in accusing them of hiding income.
     
  8. Veteran101

    Veteran101 New Member

    Basically, if you physically work in the office over a 30 day period of time then you could be subject to tax as it currently stands.
    For example, my brother in law works for a NY company. He commutes daily from his home in NJ via train to NYC.

    By working for a NY company in NY he is taxed NJ state and also taxed as non-resident NY. Though this is double taxation and again terrible for anyone in my opinion, NY does have ground to say he benefits from employment, services, etc from NY.

    The issue is NY is now trying to steal dollars from individual who do not even set foot in the state. I guess we could put it in another way. Since 80+% of companies are Delaware Corporations, what if Delaware would say ok, lets tax everyone the standard 5.85% income tax who works for a Delaware Corporation!!! You would have a national outcry.

    Bottom line, we somehow need to put these left wing greasy politicians in line. We have now surpassed England in total taxation, the nation we fought 2 centuries ago to free ourselves of the wrath, two spouses who now work, one (the lesser income) pays 100% of their salary just to cover federal, state, and local parasites. When is it going to end?
     
  9. Mel

    Mel New Member

    As others have suggested, it is a question of where he works, not where he lives. For those working for IBM or other large businesses, they have a corporate presence in pretty much all states, and your work location is probably the same state as your home.

    My husband works in MA, we live in RI. His company has offices in RI too, but his office is in MA so he pays MA income taxes as a non-resident. He then gets credit for paying those taxes on his RI tax return. Some states have a "tax treaty" with other states which evens things out a bit, but in many cases, you end up paying more for working in one state and living in another.

    That's one of the considerations when deciding where to work and where to live - and I doubt his property taxes are much higher than ours are here in New England. He's getting paid for a job in a high-cost of living state, and living in a low-cost of loving state. I bet even if the property tax rate is higher, the lower cost house cuases the actual tax paid to be about a wash. For the price of my home, I could get a small mansion in TN, or I could gat the same house for half the price or less, easily.
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I am NOT a tax expert but I am surprised to hear this situation called "double taxation".

    Usually, state income taxes are apportioned depending on the fraction of income earned in each state, right? Where income is earned in one state and the taxpayer is resident in another state, doesn't the state of residence permit some sort of offset for income taxes paid in the other state?

    Now here in the Southwest, Texans who live in El Paso and work in New Mexico pay New Mexico's income tax only. There is no Texas state income tax. (These folks really DO get shafted because they pay Texas' property tax, which is much higher than ours would be. Serves 'em right for insisting on remaining Texan! :D)

    On the other hand, New Mexico residents who work in Texas pay New Mexico income tax on all Texas income, again because there is no Texas tax to offset.
     
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    And what is a low cost of loving state?
     
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Slight drunkeness??
     
  13. Veteran101

    Veteran101 New Member

    Mel

    Where he works, not where he lives.
    Yes the key words are physically works.

    It is funny, those who live in the NE think everyplace else is such a bargin. This is pure bunk.

    As I stated before I have worked for the same company for over 17 years and have been tranfered many time. I have lived and owned a home in the following states.

    WV, NJ, VA, MD, NY, PA, IL, and GA.

    Each state has a way to screw each tax payer equally.

    When I moved from WV to NJ people said, ouch, that hurts.
    Actually, I was better off.

    Yes, property is higher, like RI to TN but what does the other side bring.
    WV has 6.5% income tax, property tax, personal property tax, outlandish utility rates, 6% sales tax on everything (food, clothing etc), pet tax (over and above license), and yes, oh yes, tree tax!!
    You buy a tree for your yard, you pay an extra tree tax, yes there is tire tax, an extra tax for each tire for your car. I could go on and on.
    In fact, Old West By God Virginia, my native home ranks 49 in overall standard of living with some cheap housing, except in the Northeast, by ranks #8 nationwide in taxation.

    Another example, I just moved from Chicago to Atlanta. Housing is cheaper, but overall it is an equal wash, even though people in Illinois think in their own mind I have made out like a bandit.

    Basically, I work in Ga, live in Ga, though my company is IL.
    I should pay Ga taxes. I also conduct business in 12 states as a
    Regional Manager. Does this mean I should pay income tax in each state?
    How about a truck driver who conducts business in all states and Canada. Should this poor sap be hit with each state taxation? Rember he crosses lines, delivers to companies, etc. Yes, his company pays highway tax, should he pay income tax for all or just his state of residence. oh yes, that is his truck!

    Regards,
     
  14. Veteran101

    Veteran101 New Member

  15. gkillion

    gkillion New Member

    I own a company in Illinois, that from time to time, has had employees in about a dozen different states. While each state has its own tax laws and withholding requirements, I have found that for the most part states require the employee to pay income tax to the state he/she resides in.

    The company however pays unemployment tax to the state the work is performed in.
     
  16. Mel

    Mel New Member

    Re: Mel

    That may be how people want it to work, but that's not how the tax code works. He works for a company in New York, his place of employment is in New York, and thus he must abide by the tax code in New York. Like I said, my husband's company has offices in RI, but his place of employment (as opposed to where he physically works since he's in outside sales) is in MA.

    There is no state that has the best tax situation, which is why we don't all move to the same state. Even so, what you intimate about New England is actually incorrect. Even when federal taxes are removed (represents a greater portion of total taxes in more affluent states), the states with the top 5 tax burdens are:

    Maine (13% of income)
    New York (12%)
    Hawaii (11.5%)
    Rhode Island (11.4%)
    Wisconsin (11.4)

    Your example of West Virginia is way down at number 12. Once you add federal income taxes, WV drops way down to number 38. You can see all the numbers here - http://www.taxfoundation.org/statelocal.html

    The man in question wants it both ways - he wants the "better" tax situation of Tennesee and the lower cost of living (not always lower taxes, but definitely lower prices for almost everything), but the higher salary for working for a company in New York. With many jobs, salaries are different depending on where you live - the same job pays more in NY than it does in TN. This is why many people move away from New England when they retire; it costs too much to stay.
     
  17. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Re: Re: Mel

    He still has no representation in New York. If he sent his kids to the State University of New York or the City University of New York, no doubt they would refuse to let him pay in-state tuition. If he ever needed unemployment or disability benefits, NY would tell him to go to TN for that. What's the point? To punish him for making too much money?

    I have an immodest suggestion: no matter what state you live in, work in, or own property in, everybody pays 2% state income tax to each and every one of the fifty states. (For those of you who haven't yet figured me out, that second paragraph was meant to be tongue in cheek.)
     
  18. Mel

    Mel New Member

    You have representation in the state where you live, where you presumably pay preperty taxes. Of course, if you own property taxes in more than one state, you only get representation where you reside for most of the year.

    My parents used to own a summer house in Maine, does that mean I should have been afforded in-state tuiting if I had chosen to go to school there? I think not.

    For a person who works in one state, and resides in another, both states share responsibility for the services this person uses. Perhaps they live on the border of RI, and commute an hour to Boston. Their household uses services that are paid for with local property taxes - schools, trash, recycling, local fire department, police department, etc.

    During the commute, most of the travel is in MA, and the workday is spent in MA. Yes, RI would pay unemployment, but the costs are covered by an agreement between the states. RI and MA know that each will end up paying for employees who worked in the other state.

    Some states have Reciprocal agreements, where you wuld only pay taxes where you reside, not where you work. Most of these agreements are between states that border each other, because they have the most residents in such situations.
     
  19. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    What frustrates me about your posts is that you like to argue WHAT IS as if WHAT IS IS GOOD while I am trying to argue WHAT OUGHT TO BE. Again, what did you not understand about the founding principle of this nation? No taxation without representation!
     
  20. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    "No taxation without representation."

    Like so many ringing denunciations, this one oversimplifies an important principal.

    LOTS of folks pay taxes without being represented. Here in New Mexico, every non resident driving through and buying gasoline or a meal or a hotel room is taxed.

    Don't like that? Okay, how about this? A child with an independant income must pay income taxes but is ineligible to vote for state representatives. Taxation without representation!

    Same goes in many states for convicted felons. (Here in NM we just now restored the right to vote for felons who have completed probation and/or parole.)

    Documented immigrant aliens pay the same taxes as you or I but don't get to vote for their "representatives."

    Heck, even the Founding Fathers who PENNED that deathless line didn't enfranchise slaves, free blacks or women! Remember "three fifths of a person"? But I promise you that they ALL paid taxes, either directly or indirectly.
     

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