Need advice re: DL on resume

Hi,
I have a BS and an MBA, both are DL. The MBA is obviously DL as it was awarded from a school in the UK and it is on my resume as such. I am looking for a new job and have found out through an executive recruiter that my resume is getting tossed due to the DL factor.
Should I perhaps put the MBA on the resume with no school?
When I interview, I feel that I represent the degree well and in fact, I think it may have impressed. Most of the jobs for which I have interviewed were offered but I turned them down due to other factors.

Any advice other than what I have indicated?

thanks ya'll!

 

Attending graudate school in a foreign country should be considered an asset given the global nature of the economy of most countries including the USA.

On your resume are you noting the MBA is DL or just mentioning the country (UK) as the location of the school?

 

It's not listed as DL, just the fact that is in Edinburgh. To make matters worse, the name of the university indicates that it is not from the US as the word "Queen" is part of it.
Really don't want to misrepresent, just want to get my foot in the door and sell the degree and myself!

 

I'd also ask the executive recruiter, who is getting a nice payment for getting you placed, what he/she recommends.

It's not like you didn't get a MBA or have a diploma mill MBA - you just want to get the chance to prove your worth in an interview.

Cheers,
Mark

 

Do you have the date of conferral listed? If so, people will add it together. Without it, who's to say that in your past you didn't live in Scotland for a few years? Unless of course you're in your early-to-mid 20's where this won't work (not enough years to work with).

When you get into the interview you can be open and honest when asked and sell the benefits.

Quite a few people choose to leave off conferral dates on their resumes anyway because it indirectly gives what one can't directly ask - your age. Unless it's directly asked of the recuiter, for presumably some valid reason, it doesn't need to be offered.

Cheers,
Mark

 

Resume Format

Your best bet might be to use a functional resume format rather than a chronological format. This will allow you to showcase your education and your skill sets while making it harder to "out" you as a DL learner. Just a thought.

 

Thanks for the input.
I already use a functional resume format and no conferral dates are listed. Yes, I will ask the recruiter, that is a good point. One recruiter has 'sold' my MBA while another simply doesn't understand dl and in fact, has had some bad experience with mills. I guess he has had some past candidates try to use them and it came back on him. I have gone around and around with this guy!!! Doesn't matter much as I am passively using him.

It's not so much the recruiters. My main problem is not getting a call from clubs that I know I am qualified to run. Maybe too qualified in their mind? I interviewed at Pebble Beach before finishing my degree and during the meeting was asked what I would do after getting the degree. He assumed I would get out of the business.

Long story short, I think I will keep it on my resume but remove reference to the location of the University. This way, they might ask me about the name of the school and it will give me an opportunity to 'sell' my degree. Thoughts?

Sorry for the length, but I am really worked up about the recruiters comments to me and my frustration grows concerning opportunities lost over narrow-mindedness!

 

Maaaan, this thread gets my blood pressure going.

Okay... first problem: You're using a recruiter. I've been in business since I was 11, as a newspaper carrier, where I learned the value of showing-up, and on-time; providing good service; getting paid, and on-time; paying on time; self-discipline; being dependable, etc., etc. Not long after I became the youngest Radio Shack manager in the then-history of that company. After that I sold enough encyclopedias in under two years to buy a brand new 1976 Ford Gran Torino, for cash, right off the showroom floor. Somewhere in there I finally turned 18. Went to college. Got into the computer business. Ran other people's companies. Ran my own companies. Made tons of money for myself and others (and lost a bunch for myself a time or two). But always, in the end, did just fine. Now I'm almost 50. And in those nearly 40 years, trust me when I tell you that I've worked with or heard from every headhunter and/or recruiter who ever freakin' lived... or so it seemed. And not a one of them... I'm telling you, godasmywitness... NOT ONE SINGLE ONE OF THEM WAS WORTH THE GUN POWDER IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN TO BLOW 'EM UP!

Headhunters and recruiters, generally, are the single most unethical, self-interested, dishonorable, disingenuous, disreputable, despicable, slimy, contemptuous, lying, deceitful, unprofessional complete and utter wastes of human flesh that I have ever encountered in my entire life... and believe me when I tell you that I've met almost every underhanded low-life on the planet! I offer you this as advice, a warning, and as a plea:

• DO NOT LISTEN TO, OR ALLOW YOUR HEAD TO BE SO MUCH AS TURNED BY, A HEADHUNTER AND/OR A RECRUITER! EVER! DO NOT BELIEVE A SINGLE WORD THEY SAY ABOUT ANYTHING. EVER! IF ONE EVER TELLS YOU THE SKY IS BLUE OR THAT WATER'S WET... FREAKING CHECK!

Get the hell away from recruiters; and do it right now! No one -- and I mean no one -- seeks-out a career as a headhunter or recruiter. They talk a good game but, trust me, they're losers -- people who can't actually walk the walk, so they became headhunters and/or recruiters. If you learn of a job opening and the contact happens to be a headhunter or recruiter, DO NOT call or send your resume to him. Rather, do some detective work (it's not as hard as you might think) and figure out where the job is and contact the employer yourself, directly. Do these things and, I promise you, you'll still be thanking me long after I'm dead.

There. I would say that that should pretty much cover whatever you should think and/or do regarding what your stupid recruiters told you.


Secondly, get your head on straight about your MBA. You're talking about it, here, like it's a case of herpes or somthing. Stop it!

That you even have an MBA is something of which to be enormously proud. The institution from which you earned is something of which to be enormously proud. That you earned by via distance learning -- and considering all the self-discipline and tenacity that that requires -- is something of which to be enormously proud. You've let ignorant, frightened people put stupid ideas into your head -- including a couple you've picked-up here, no doubt -- and now you're all turned around and distracted. Stop it!

Wear your work experience and your MBA -- including where and how your earned it -- like a badge of honor; and make anyone who challenges the legitimacy or quality of either feel like he just insulted your mother.

Use the functional resume format. List the MBA and where it's from proudly, as part of your list of other degrees, and right out in the open like there's not a darned thing wrong with it. If it makes a potential employer furrow his/her brow trying to figure out if you've ever lived in the U.K., so be it. Do not specify on the resume the date it was earned (or the dates that any other degrees were earned, for that matter, either), but certainly do not hesitate to disclose them, proudly and unhesitatingly, if you're asked. Do not state on the resume that the MBA was acquired via distance learning; but, again, if you're asked, say that it was with your chest out and pride in your voice.

Stop fretting, generally. Fix the resume and get it out there. Stop using headhunters or recruiters and, trust me, the whole problem of people allegedly tossing your resume into the trash will mysteriously disappear.

If you insist on fretting about something, worry about how you can convey, subtlely, on the resume, that your MBA is as legit and "accredited" as if it had been earned at any regionally-accredited school in the U.S.

You've let the recruiter make distance learning the issue. It, trust me, is not. That's his hangup... and we already know he's an idiot. A typical potential U.S. employer is not going to be afraid of your MBA because it's not from a U.S. school. And that's going to be the only thing he's going to worry about regarding that degree. Some people -- not all, mind you, but some -- who post here know too much (if you can understand what I mean by that)... and tend to project onto potential employers that same level of understanding of things. But lots of employers don't even know the right questions to ask, much less what to suspect. Consequently, some who post here sometimes miss the mark when it comes to anticipating what the problem is.

And we can't even trust headhunters and recruiters to give us the correct time, so we definitely don't give a damn what they think the problem is! So just get that out of your mind.

Fix the resume the way I told you. Then Learn to get around the headhunter/recruiter smokescreen and get that resume into the hands of the decision makers yourself -- skipping right past the H.R. department lackies, too, if you can possibly do it.

Be bold. Be proud. Keep your head on straight. Stop listening to idiots (and by "idiots," I mean, mostly, the headhunters and recruiters, not necessarily the people who post here... although there's an idiot or two here, too, you should know). Be confident. Be creative. Be tenacious. Be resourceful. Assume you're the best for the job and put it right up there in their faces. The people you offend will nearly always only be H.R. lackies; and those above them whom you offend would be insufferable bosses anyway. Do these things...

...and things will change for you.

I promise.

 

Greg:

Great post! (Greater, upon reading it for the third time .... smile).

However, ......

Ummm, Gregg, may I please reserve that honor for the fraudulent diploma mill operators, the mill shills and the like?

Then again, teflon-suited recruiters and mill shills may often be seen, paddling the same boat in shallow waters, proclaiming loudly and clearly to all within earshot that theirs is a luxury cruise!

Thanks.

 

As a friend of mine from Louisiana said "Whew, Son"! That was a great post!!!!!
You are of course, right. I worked bloody hard for that degree and I should just put it out there. If they don't like, screw 'em. They aren't worthy of my talents.

Re: the recruiters. You are probably right, but they do get some pretty good jobs, at least in my industry. One thing though, I can certainly get, and have gotten, great jobs on my own. Why worry about it now.

Thanks for getting my head right. No worries mate.

 

Why would you even mention that the method of delivery for your degree was DL? It's unnecessary. You wouldn't put after a degree "took courses on weekends" or "night school".

Just list the degrees -- plain and simple. If they ask you about how you got a degree from some school abroad while living in the US -- explain how the system works. It's just one more chance for you to demonstrate how articulate you are. If you ldesignate it as DL it almost sounds like you're on the defensive. Be matter of fact -- assuming that how you got your degree is jsut as normal as other methods of delivery.

So, I would think that the listing should be something like this:

B.A., Such and Such College (economics) 2001

M.B.A., Name of School (finance) 2005

Keep it simple.

 

Recruiters are loyal to employers, not you. You don't pay them. To recruiters, you're just a solution to their problem: finding a qualified applicant so they can get paid. With that in mind, and understanding that they get many unsolicited requests from job-seekers as well, you can see why they're leery of anything that might blow up on them. Sending in an applicant with a questionable degree (not you) is one way to dissolve a profitable partnership with an employer. So they take the more cautious route, which sometimes discriminates against you.

You don't have to list your degrees. If you do, I think you have to list the sources. But you certainly don't have to list the locations of the schools, nor conferral dates. Now, these might come up in the course of an interview (and you might be asked to give that information on a job application prior to the interview).

I certainly would not indicate the course delivery method (DL). It adds nothing to the resume and only raises questions among those who don't get it.

The purpose of a resume is to get you an interview, not to tell your complete story. Sometimes you have to omit things that interfere with that goal. As long as you're being truthful, the only real question is whether or not you're making a good decision. I think you are.

 

Rich has true words for sure.

I list my MBA on my resume as...

Master of Business Administration, Management
California State University-Dominguez Hills

I don't list a date at all. If they want to check a date, they generally do so after telling you that you are accepted contingent on a background investigation. At that time a date can be given.

I have never had an issue with the DL degrees I have. I have worked for a few fortune 500's and many top consulting firms over the years, too.

Maybe I am a bit fortunate in that I was in the military. They expect you to have degrees from all over and to have traveled around.

Oddly enough, I did receive an offer just recently at a large university. They were LOOKING for someone with DL background in their education, if you can believe it. I listed it as MBA, on-line program. It was an admin job.

 

If you don't mind, could you share the name of the university, and did you accept the job? (if you don't want it, I might apply )

 

No, I would not put the location of the school because that is not necessary and it is not something that will help to sell you. The name of the school and the type of degree that was conferred should be sufficient. If that leads to an interview, then you can elaborate more, if that is necessary.