TUI says they are WASC Accredited

So, do you just enjoy posting incorrect information?

For example ... from the TUI site ...

"By using teleconferencing and other Touro University
International innovative tools, the students have constant
contact and feedback from their dissertation chair and
committee."

So where is the "NOT 100% DL" that you continue to say?

I live in a rural area, have had slow access speeds
and yet did just fine for the HL sessions, thank you.

You continue to make statements that are NOT found in
the descriptions of the program. NO where does it say
one must 'stand in front' of anyone for the various steps
of the process. Yet, you make posts indicating such? Why?

BTW, please go back and re-read the posts over the past
few YEARS ... the PhD program has constantly undergone
continuous improvements ... then again, if you are not in
the program, how the heck would YOU know for sure?

Touro is a private school that followed the rules of how
these matters are processed, as other schools do so.

Any time I wanted to know the status of the program, all
I had to do was email or pick up the telephone and then
call TUI to ask any question. Why didn't do YOU do same?

Here's a suggestion, pickup the telephone and call the
WASC office and ask your questions concerning the TUI
branches ... Some are DL, some are B&M ... been that
way for sometime now. Ditto for their global sites. I am
sure someone there will try to answer your concerns.

Or, you can continue to whine and post trash like you have.

At least try to post facts that can be supported please.

Billy

 

What?

You say the above and then you say this:

Is it 100% distance or not? Apparently, you don't even know but then you demand an apology? I NEVER, EVER said that Touro would require a residency portion. I said it could end up requiring SOME residency. BIG DIFFERENCE! Maybe you should read people's postings more carefully before you start your raging and unsustainable defense of TUI.

 

Re: First of All

a. Were ALL of Touro's units in the WASC area accredited? Since the Touro University-California is not a distance learning school, you no longer have a 100% distance learning institution. Thus, the claim that WASC has for the first time accredited a 100% institution is not valid. Has TUI, instead of being a branch campus of Touro College, become a branch or college of Touru University - California?


Not sure. The announcement from TUI was about TUI being under WASC.


b. I keep hearing that the PhD is 100% distance but I notice their site says in person defenses for the Comp and dissertation. What does this mean? Someone should explain that. Again, Joe/Jane student in rural America without access to broadband may not be able to participate in the required video conferences for the class portion of the program. If he/she were unable to access satellite (not everyone can) they would be out of luck.


I don't see any explicit language on the website requiring an in-person visit to TUI for comps or defenses. If you see something explicit, I'd love to read it.


c. Touro university is a school that handled the whole situation very poorly. They kept everyone, including their students and alumni, in the dark. I will not congratulate them now that it worked out. They should apologize to us, the ones who keep them in business, for their evasiveness.


I moderate a board for 70 TUI Ph.D. students and I know of no instance where questions about accreditation went un-answered. There was no public announcement but the situation was freely discussed among students and professors. My opinion was that the whole organization tooks the accreditor's feedback and implemented it as best they could in the context of a rapidly growing organization. This action didn't require a public announcement. Moreover, the general attitude among professors was that all the issues were being addressed and that there was really little chance of an accreditation problem, ever.


d. Apologize for telling someone to wait to enroll in a program until an accreditation issue is worked out? Heck no, it is in fact what any RESPONSIBLE person would advise their fellow man.

You guessed and you were wrong. Sometimes people apologize for jumping to conclusions and sometimes they are too proud to admit it. The advice to wait was well intentioned but I sure hope nobody took it and waited to enroll in TUI or an alternative school based upon it. Otherwise, they now have to admit they followed poor advice.

Best wishes,

Dave

 

Billy learn to read.

Facts, where are yours? You post a quote about the taught portion of the program as a response to my comments on the comprehensive exams and dissertation defense. Get something that applies.

Touro's web page also indicates there is a written and oral comprehensive exam. I would bet will not be done entirely online. Maybe the written exam can be done at a testing center and the oral defense teleconferenced. But it doesn't say that and YOU DO NOT KNOW! It also says you will need to defend your dissertation before a committee. Will that be done online? It doesn't say, and before you post a comment based solely on the classes and then call me a liar you need to FIND OUT! Do you have broadband? If so, you probably would do just fine with the conference. I wouldn't be able to with my comnnection, have tried and it don't work. Don't consider your experience as the same across the United States. Some people on this board need to GROW UP!.....

 

I believe that Saybrook only offers DL programs these days, although they do require occasional meetings. Pacifica seems to be on a 100% short-residency format built around weekend meetings.

 

I guessed what Dave?

Hmmm, guess you don't know so what's with all of the definitive statements?

Do you see anything that says that they don't require a visit? I tell you what I don't see, ANYTHING that says they are 100% online. Shees, this is getting farcifical.

There were many people coming to this board interested in Touro's programs who had called Touro concerning their accreditation issues. No one at Touro (rightly by the way) told them that they would definately obtain WASC accreditation. Being sure that there will not be a problem is not the same as having accreditation. There is a difference, and you should be able to recognize that as a PhD candidate.

What was my guess Dave? Do you know? If you do, do you know I am wrong yet? Let me tell you what my guess was:

Touro's bread and butter is their graduate and undergraduate programs not their PhD program. I never had any doubt those programs would survive. They would have, if necessary, dumped the PhD to save the rest. Go back and see my posts on the issue when it first erupted (yeah, do a little research before you run your mouth). However, I further opined that they could easily save the PhD program by requiring SOME residencies. There is still no guarantee that is not the case. I further stated that requiring some residencies would actually benefit the program and its students. Yes, I recommended to people that considered the PhD program that they wait. That was the ETHICAL thing to do. However, one of my best friends is enrolled in one of their undergraduate programs and when he asked me about the issue I told him that there shouldn't be a problem with his program.

You people yammer about things you know zip about. Your blind adherence to your beliefs reflects poorly on your judgement and fitness for doctoral research. Your vapid attacks on those who counsel caution to those asking for advice reflects poorly on your ethics. Frankly, the conduct of some of Touro's PhD students on this board is a good reason NOT to enroll in their program. You do OUR school a disservice....

 

I agree with you but feel that I am entitled to clarify my point. Western Governors are accredited by the "The Accrediting Commission for Community and Junior Colleges of the Western Association of Schools and Colleges" this is not the same part of WASC TUI are accredited by. TUI is accredited by the "Accrediting Commission for Senior Colleges and Universities." I will rephrase my original statement to read that TUI is the only senior college accredited by WASC that is purely DL.

Eli

 

Hey Eli

Your post for WGU said the following which indicates WGU IS accredited as a senior college by WASC. By the way, the following is a cut and paste from your post:

"WGU is Regionally Accredited by Four Commissions. Western Governors University is the only university to receive regional accreditation from four regional accrediting commissions at the same time. (Regional accreditation is considered the highest type of accreditation.) WGU's accreditation has been approved by the following four commissions:

* The Commission on Colleges and Universities of the Northwest Association of Schools and of Colleges and Universities (considered WGU's "home" commission)
* The Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools
* The Accrediting Commission for Community and Junior Colleges of the Western Association of Schools and Colleges
* The Accrediting Commission for Senior Colleges and Universities of the Western Association of Schools and Colleges"

 

Re: I guessed what Dave?

Me thinks thou protesteth too much... Perhaps you should have pursued the PhD at TUI instead of Durban? Still, Durban looks like an interesting program, so I'm sure it will work out for you, and there is no need for all this dissonance reduction relative to your own decision... I mean these emotional ravings about being cautious when your assumptions turned out to be incorrect aren't really necessary.

Best wishes,

Dave

 

Nice try Dave

I never really considered Touro because I like to keep my degrees from different schools. When you verify my assumptions or guesses are wrong you come back and let us know. Until then, you are just guessing. As to the rest, you are wrong and almost everyone on this board knows it....

 

I am too.

What this immediate accreditation tells me is that minimal organizational and administrative changes were made. If the California units were substantially different, to the point of becoming stand-alone universities in most respects, WASC probably would have wanted a candidacy. (Even new University of California campuses undergo candidacies.)

That suggests in turn that important functions are still being handled back there in New York at Touro College, where Middle States originally signed off on them, and weren't changed substantially or transfered out to California. So I'm still not clear what these California units are, or what their separate accreditation means exactly. Did WASC inspect what New York is doing, or do they just take Middle States' word for it?

That's not necessarily a criticism. The University of California is technically one university with separately accredited campuses. But it would be nice to see Touro's rather murky internal structure clarified.

That's so surprising that I'm not sure that I believe it yet. I think that I'm going to wait and see what changes, if any, are made in Touro University International's programs. So far the new accreditation hasn't even been announced on WASC's website yet, and all the information that we have to go on is basically anonymous newsgroup posts.

But assuming that the reports are true, I wonder what made WASC change its policy. Is WASC even aware that their policy has dramatically changed, or did they just rubber-stamp what Middle States had already approved, without reading all of the small print? If so, that would certainly be ironic, given John Bear's posts reporting Middle States' own surprise that they had been the first to accredit a Ph.D. program with no residencies.

Or alternatively, was this no-residency policy something that WASC was about to roll out anyway, Touro or no Touro?

Whatever the answer is to that, I echo Oxpecker in wondering how long it will be before other California DL doctoral programs start dropping their own residency requirements. It's gonna be hard for WASC to keep that gate shut now that it's (maybe) been unlatched.

It still seems kind of back-door to me.

Touro creates what in effect are entirely new universities (certainly new UC-style campuses) by pushing 'substantive change' procedures to the limit and beyond, instead of getting the new units independently accredited the old-fashioned way. Then it transfers the units to a different accreditor and neatly avoids all the years of candidacy and the other hassles that other new schools undergo.

It's certainly slick, but I don't think that I like it.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

Dave, thanks for this tidbit of information on DTechBA,
that explains his/her bias ... gives a better perspective!

"Perhaps you should have pursued the PhD at TUI
instead of Durban?"

And would it be a safe 'guess' that Durban is NOT 100% DL?

From DTechBA ...

"When you verify my assumptions or guesses are
wrong you come back and let us know. Until then,
you are just guessing."

Let me see if I follow your PhD logic ... it's OK for
you to make assumptions or guesses, that no one
else can challenge ... but no one else do the same?

Especially if yours can be proved to be less that accurate.

Aha, yes .... now we all understand why it is useless
to point out facts with you. I'll not waste much more
time as you seem to want only YOUR views posted.

At least you finally admitted as to the root strength
of your posts ... as in "my assumptions or guesses".

The nice manner in which you have responded is also
noted. We all have a bad day (or post) from time to
time ... but you must be having a bad week perhaps?

BTW, I am in the TUI program, I do know the guidelines,
and here's a public reference for anyone else who would
like to read the material and draw their own conclusions:

http://www.tourou.edu/cba/phd.htm

Interesting ... that for a DL forum, that should encourage
new ideas, programs, and out of the box thinking, how
easy some want to nix the word 'change' from the reality
of how (be it slow) the world of academics moves forward.

Billy

 

Well, I would like to put a few cents in…. as always First, I will not quote anyone, as I have read through the quotes, and simply want to put in some comments and my opinion, not attack or be attacked.

I do think it is great that TUI received accreditation, and I think many are surprised that no candidacy was needed, and they went straight to accreditation. I think this was the best result that could be expected for TUI.

BUT, I (as well as others) stand behind the comment to wait until the accreditation was known. Just because they did end up getting the accreditation does not mean that it was 100% in the bag, and there was a risk to entering the program during the transition time, with no guarantee that accreditation would be awarded. Now that it has, that risk is gone, BUT it is better to go on data, not gut instinct (basic research 101)…. Always go with the data. Since the data was not available, it was prudent to say to wait until accreditation is awarded or just understand the risk (it is up to each person what they thought that risk was, but there was no 100% guarantee this would be the result).

When the WASC website is updated, it will be much like the Middle States, where accreditation is awarded, but with what measures need to be changed, if any. That will be interesting to read. I am confident if other students are reading the same kinds of e-mails that they have received accreditation, but there has been no official information out yet, i.e. WASC (note the title of the thread). I foresee once the WASC website is updated, the full picture of what this means for DL will be filled in. I hope it remains 100% DL, as it will be a big step for DL, but we should know next week.

And DtechBA – I hand the torch to you of being attacked for your opinion / comments I know it is not funny, but was the whipping post last thread, so happily pass on the torch. It is sad, but a reality on this subject it seems.

 

TU website updated

TU website updated with WASC info.

http://www.tourou.edu/accreditation/index.htm

 

Well, I would like to put a few cents in…. as always First, I will not quote anyone, as I have read through the quotes, and simply want to put in some comments and my opinion, not attack or be attacked.

I do think it is great that TUI received accreditation, and I think many are surprised that no candidacy was needed, and they went straight to accreditation. I think this was the best result that could be expected for TUI.

BUT, I (as well as others) stand behind the comment to wait until the accreditation was known. Just because they did end up getting the accreditation does not mean that it was 100% in the bag, and there was a risk to entering the program during the transition time, with no guarantee that accreditation would be awarded. Now that it has, that risk is gone, BUT it is better to go on data, not gut instinct (basic research 101)…. Always go with the data. Since the data was not available, it was prudent to say to wait until accreditation is awarded or just understand the risk (it is up to each person what they thought that risk was, but there was no 100% guarantee this would be the result).

When the WASC website is updated, it will be much like the Middle States, where accreditation is awarded, but with what measures need to be changed, if any. That will be interesting to read. I am confident if other students are reading the same kinds of e-mails that they have received accreditation, but there has been no official information out yet, i.e. WASC (note the title of the thread). I foresee once the WASC website is updated, the full picture of what this means for DL will be filled in. I hope it remains 100% DL, as it will be a big step for DL, but we should know next week.

And DtechBA – I hand the torch to you of being attacked for your opinion / comments I know it is not funny, but was the whipping post last thread, so happily pass on the torch. It is sad, but a reality on this subject it seems.

 

Re: Nice try Dave

With respect to verification, this whole discussion started as a result of TUI going from being accredited by Middle States under TC to WASC. In fact, the transfer happened more swiftly than we imagined. However, you (and others) had your doubts and expressly them publicly even after several folks tried to reason with you. Were you incorrect? Yes.

Dave

 

He's not being attacked for dispensing incorrect advice about TUI... In fact, he seems to be using emotionally-charged language to attack everyone who disagrees with him. My guess is that he might be too proud to admit that his advice turned out to be wrong. His resistance to change his attitudes to reflect the new reality seem based in some inner motivation or psychological discomfort, perhaps about his own irreversible choices; however, I'm not a squirrel doctor, so I wouldn't know about any of that psycho-babble stuff... As soon as he wants to start making sense again, I'm sure he'll be listened to...

In contrast, with respect to methodology, if the ODA ever produces an accurate list of anything that has any value other than to provide us something to discuss, I promise to be the first to admit it.

Best wishes,

Dave

 

Sorry for the repeat postings, I am having some technical problems posting in the past couple of days.... too late to delete it.

 

For the Looney Toons on this board

Since Dave and AA4NU have very poor research and comprehension skills, let me repost one of my posts from January 2004.

You two can't even debate on the facts, you make them up as you go along. Let me keep some facts simple for you:

a. Touro has said they have WASC accreditation. They have not said their PhD program still does not require a visit to campus. That is a fact and not an assumption. When they post such a thing get on here and let us know. Until then, stop making assumptions.

b. Dave, you feel free to post something where I had my doubts about TUI being accredited. I have never said such a thing. It just fits your narrow idea of the argument here. You are making a baseless assumption and accusing others of the same. Get a grip.

c. AA4NU, just what did Dave clue you into that a 1st grader couldn't have found out in 5 minutes of browsing the boards? By the way moron, it has been mentioned on here numerous times Durban is not 100% DL. So what, should I be envious? Grow up.

Don't think for one minute I will roll over and be quiet as you repeat endlessly your same tired argument. Believe it or not, something untrue does not become true through endless repitition. What does become obvious though, is how vacuous your argument really is. Man, I hate arguing with the witless....

 

Re: For the Looney Toons on this board

Friend,

Hi. You were incorrect about TUI, and it is a matter of public record. My advice is that you try to discuss topics in a mature fashion and learn to admit your shortcomings; they do exist. These traits are what doctoral-level research and pedagogical activities are all about. By the way, it has been my experience that when those involved in a debate resort to name calling and ad hominem attacks, it is an indicator of the strength of their arguments and, possibly, their cognitive complexity. Best of luck to you in your doctoral program at Durban; I look forward to reading your contribution to the research stream.

Best wishes,

Dave