Terrible work groups

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Mr. Engineer, Feb 28, 2005.

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  1. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    How many of us have been assigned by a Professor to work on a term project with a lackluster group? Don't you get tired of having to do the work because one or more members of the group is lazy and makes excuses?

    Frankly, I look at my degree in this fashion - it is a job. In my job, I am often tasked to manage multiple projects involving hundreds of thousands of dollars -- all this while doing my normal engineering function. I am required to stay on-time and under budget. The same holds true for a class assignment. And yet, some clowns think they can consistently send in late, unreadable, and unfinished assignments time and time again. Of course, their lives are more important than anyone else (never whine to me - I work 70+ hours every week, have primary custody of two kids, and am going to school - cry on someone elses shoulder) so they think their excuses are of any consequence to the rest of the group.

    How many of you have been subject to this type of person or persons? How do you deal with it? If this was a work environment, they would be unemployed in quick order (especially where I work). How do you "unemploy" a slackard student?

    Your thoughts??
     
  2. little fauss

    little fauss New Member

    I'm not really much help for answering your questions, but I would like to take this opportunity to commiserate and rant.

    I was in a work group in an online MBA class at a large B&M, and I was paired up with a student who was taking 5 classes during the 8 week summer session as well as working a full-time job. By my reckoning, that's compressing 15 cr. hr. into half the time, roughly akin to doing a 30 cr. hr. regular semester (crazy!), then at the same time working a 40-50 hr job? (utterly padded cell insane!!!). Now guess who did the lion's share of the work on the team project that was worth a huge percentage of the final grade? Guess who had their course grade drop from 96.5% to 89.93% because of the ineffective team assistance on the final project?

    Really irritating, but I gotta say, it's not much different than real life. I've never been on a team in industry where there wasn't a minority of people pulling the weight for the majority, and sometimes being dragged down in the process.
     
  3. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member

    I've just been going through this with a friend who just started the master's program in IT. He and one other student ended up pulling the weight for the rest of the group.

    I've heard this particular complaint often enough from UOP students that I had warned him. However, he decided that UOP worked best for him.

    On a sidenote, it's been interesting to follow him through the process of being a UOP student. Besides that one problem, he is really enjoying the program.



    Tom Nixon
     
  4. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    I went through 90% of the UoP IT program with virtually the same group of 7 people. Luckily, four of us are pretty driven A personalities (including an Army commando type). so we got things done despite having to pull along the other three members of the group.
     
  5. plantagenet

    plantagenet New Member

    Does the UoP have some form of peer assessment mechanism (where not everyone receives the same mark and those who do not pull their weight can be punished)?
     
  6. bing

    bing New Member

    I see that you are in CSU-DH's MBA program. I graduated from that in 1999. Your workgroup issue was the most bothersome aspect of the entire program for me. I feel that my complaints fell on deaf ears for certain.

    Some of my workgroups were great. Many were not. I can pinpoint the problem to two main areas. 1) So many students in the program had terrible English skills and had to be carried by the rest of the group. This made an on-line program difficult for some classes....like management for instance. 2) Some students were just plain lazy and did not even bother to do the bare minimum. They were often just chock full of excuses. I'll never forget one lady. She kept saying, "look, i am a single mom with three children and hold down a full-time job." blah blah blah. We all have personal issues.

    The way that CSU-DH had it configured allowed even the crappiest student to get the same grade that the top students received. I complained about this numerous times but to no avail. I am sad to see it has not changed in all these years.

    I do recall two great profs there that actually decreased the grades for these dudes, though. Roger Berry and David Karber didn't stand for this stuff from my recollection.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2005
  7. rmm0484

    rmm0484 Member

    I am an "associate faculty" member of UOPHX Online. I state in my syllabus that nonperforming team members will be penalized, and I do this with regularity. I have given zero grades to team members who do not contribute. This usually causes them to shape up somewhat, but a slackard is a slackard. On a personal note, I had to carry a three person team in one course, since one person was in the Hospital with the flu, and the other was "too busy" at work. I worked most nights until midnight for a week to finish the project. Unfortunately, sometimes, you must "take one for the team," or deal with the consequences of the mediocre to poor grade.
     
  8. trishbee

    trishbee New Member

    Minimal Group Work?

    This may seem like a silly question but does anyone know of a DL MBA program that has minimal group work? I'm curious to know if there's any out there. Thanks!
     
  9. bing

    bing New Member

    I'm guessing no. I believe it is far easier to grade group projects than all these individual ones.

    I still believe group projects are a good way to go. I learned a lot from my groups even with all the bad experiences of loafers and non-English speakers.


     
  10. qvatlanta

    qvatlanta New Member

    Many UK MBAs have low group work requirements. In the Heriott-Watt MBA 100% of the grade is based on examinations. You can do it without communicating even once with any other student. The University of London MBA also works on that model I believe.

    Personally, I think group work should have its place -- a very small, strictly limited place. If it's more than 10% of the grade I don't like it.

    Being stuck in a bad group is valuable for learning -- not about the subject but about real life, because it's going to happen to you again and again in the workplace. But if you've experienced that already, there's not much point in learning that lesson over and over again in a class.
     
  11. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    Re: Minimal Group Work?

    University of North Alabama
     
  12. trishbee

    trishbee New Member

    Thanks Bing and Qvatlanta for your help. Fed, are you a current learner or graduate of UNA? If so, what was your experience with teams (or lack of them) at UNA? Thanks, again.
     
  13. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    Current learner. No group projects to date. I am a self-motivated/directed person so I really just like to be left to my own devices unless I have a question. The professors at UNA seem to be ok with that. No forced participation (at this point) in discussions. I will say that I make a point to look for classes without group projects because of many of the issues stated here and also because I travel a good bit so I tend to compress studies as time permits.

    I avoid sychronous learning and cohort learning in masters programs.

    I was especially displeased with an on-line instructor course I was required to take last year in preparation to be an on-line adjunct. I was amazed by the number of potential instructors who were slack in participation and group projects.

    With the many programs available If you don't like group projects keep looking and don't be afraid to ask direct questions of the school regarding this issue. I even go so far as to ask about specific courses in a program so as to avoid the issue. if you can't avoid the issue then get the grading policy up front and by all means take a look at the entire program set of courses since it would really be tough to get to the capstone course and realize that you would be counting on folks who are in another time zone, country, or have a language barrier.

    Let me be the first to say that I believe group projects are worthwhile, but only if appropriately monitored and rewarded. While life isn't fair, I expect my professors to be....
     
  14. SMAS

    SMAS New Member

    Gotta love Cohorts.

    I've no doubt that astute professors will push out the scrubs of the group. However, it's difficult at best to identify them in a cohort setting (unless the prof teaches several classes to the same cohort - which is peculiar in and of itself). Although it's human nature to loathe the scrubs, its equally the same to not "rat" on them to the professor.

    I found it provocative that in an MBA cohort espousing leadership, etc., the group, of which I was included (as to not assign blame), simply chided the scrub but did little else other than carry them through.

    It should be noted that in a cohort lasting years, one can become a scrub through a project course or two because of other dynamics (work/family). I am referring to the habitual scrub who is intelligent but simply just lazy (or brilliant - Ha!).

    My takewith, however, is that if you want to cruise (comparatively) through a degree program, join a Cohort.
     
  15. trishbee

    trishbee New Member

    Thanks Fed and SMAS for your input.
     
  16. jayncali73

    jayncali73 New Member

    It depends on the teacher. I have attended UoP online for awhile and in some classes reachers rigourously monitor the team postings and ask for peer assessment at the end. However, others don't and you never know (unless the student tells you) what grade those "slackers" really get on the team assignments. Outside of most team assignments, UoP is a decent program.
     
  17. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    As I mentioned previously, I look at school the same way I look at work. We are all there to accomplish something regardless of personal problems, sick cats, bad hair days, etc. That doesn't mean I don't have compassion for someone who occassionally slips because of family and job obligations - but you need to convey this to the group at the beginning of the week. To whine and wimper at 6pm on Saturday, when the project is due on Monday will never fly.

    As a Project Manager, I am tasked to complete projects on time and under budget. When a tech or engineer is tasked, then they are expected to complete the task or at the very least explain why it wasn't done. Beleive me, in the private sector, you don't get away much with being a slackard. This year alone, the company I work for has FIRED (not laid off or allowed to quit) 8 people so far. It is pretty much a dog eat dog world so excuses don't usually fly for very long.

    With that said, unless someone has been professional enough to mention before the end of the week that they have personal issues and cannot complete their portion, then I always mention it to the professor.

    At UoP, our group was quite large. With 4 "A" personalities, we were able to maintain an A average (which isn't that hard at UoP) without the assistance of the other 3 members. We all got along and we all knew each others strengths and weaknesses.
     
  18. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    You know what the ancient Romans did to cohorts that screwed up?
    Decimation.
     
  19. Rob L

    Rob L New Member

    As a graduate of AIU Online, I am no stranger to slackers in work groups. With the exception of one team project, I had at least one member no do anything. Of course the slackers had an array of excuses, such as: 1) I am working long hours at work, 2) I am a single parent of three children, and (the worst of all excuses), 3) I am going on vacation. I can relate to the long working hours and taking care of the family, but it still no excuse not to do any work. If you can't hang with the coursework, you don't belong in college.

    Although I liked my overall experience with AIU, the group projects were the worst aspect. To me, they became just a longer version of the individual assignments. I was the sole contributor to many team assignments. The only solace was that there was only one or two team projects per quarter, as opposed to the weekly ones with UOP.


    ****Note.... I was a never a student at UOP. I am just going on second hand information I have heard from others*****
     

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