PhD, Interdisciplinary, distance, & flexible

To respond to the original question....

The University of Leicester has a distance PhD in Ancient History and Archaeology (including medieval and post-medieval periods) that appears very interesting and may be just what you are looking for. And it comes with respectable credentials. Perhaps you could tie historical legal systems into your studies as a segue to your career...

http://www.le.ac.uk/ar/dl.htm

I assume you are pursuing a PhD program as an incentive and motivator for doing the research as well as providing an academic framework to the pursuit (rather than researching and writing something without the academic component).

 

I'm sure the vast majority of members of this board would applaud this sentiment. In other words, you would like to obtain a PhD with some form of academic legitimacy and/or respectability? You would like others to understand that the degree is an earned academic achievement?

A curious statement on its face. By "circumscribed curriculum," I take it you mean you don't want to have to take courses, comprehensive exams, language exams, and other curriculum requirements. Many share your dislike of circumscription. Most of us, I suspect, would avoid it if we could. But surely you cannot object to a tutor? That is the fundamental nature of the research doctorate. You write a dissertation under a specialist in the field who acts as your guide, chide, advocate, and head cheerleader--and for some, an occasional shoulder to cry on. You are a professor nearing tenure at an RA institution. You, perhaps more than most members of this board, know that a legitimate academic institution is not going to give simply give you a degree based on "doing your own thing," particularly at the doctoral level. The degree is a testament that you have attained a certain level of educational competence (in the case of the Ph.D., research competence) in a particular field. The witness of that competence is that you have been tried and proved by specialists already productive in the field. PhD students, by the time they reach the dissertation stage (or at the beginning for UK-style research doctorates), have a lot of flexibility to choose and purue their research topics. No legitimate institution will allow them to do this unfettered, however. That's what tutors are for. I'm certain you know all this, but the tone of your posts give the impression that you just want to do your own thing and then be handed a degree. If there is no learning that you think you need to do, then why do you desire to pursue a degree? If legitimacy of the educational process is not important, why don't you just buy a piece of paper from a degree mill? (NB: just making a point, not advocating, you understand.)

If the issue is that you just want to avoid having to take courses and qualifying exams, I would suggest the UK-style research doctorate found at British, South African, and Australian universities. If you are not familiar with this approach, however, you should beware that it is usually not a less taxing effort, nor will it necessarily take less time. PhD-by-publication would be my last choice, if it were me. This approach usually requires a body of published work which then will be judged for its scholarly merit by many of the same individuals that would have comprised your dissertation examiners. For the most part, you won't have even been able to develop any sort of personal relationship with any of them. They will be judging you cold. All the pain without any of the guidance or advocacy. PhD-by-publication, I think, was originally designed--though it is not always limited to--individual scholars who have worked in the field for a time and have produced a body of work. Indeed, some universities limit this way of attaining the PhD only to their own alumni or current staff.

I try never to be quick to judge. Until proven otherwise, I try to take a person's statements at face value. (Perhaps there are some on this board that see the latter as a character flaw.) But if you are who you say you are, if you have the level of education attainment you say you do, if you hold the academic position you say you hold, then your I-want-to-earn-a-degree-but-without-conforming-to-anyone-else's-
educational-standards tone is curious to say the least. Not impossible, of course. We are all individuals, but it is undoubtedly why some have challenged you.

BTW, "interdisciplinary" is often used as a sort of buzz word for lack of educational contraints. Kind of like the crazies running the asylum. So, it tends to push buttons for some of the members of this board. In legitimate universities, interdisciplinarity is not a means of avoiding the demonstration either of research competencies or subject knowledge, especially at the doctoral level. Indeed, it often means just the opposite--not only one field of subject knowledge but two or more, as well as the intersection and interaction between them.

Good luck in your studies.



marilynd

 

I am presently discovering the bittersweet joys of disciplined interdisciplinarity on a private academic project.
----------
Thom, check your private messages.

 

PhD by publication

I agree with much of what marilynd wrote, although my view of the PhD by publication is somewhat different.

In my view, the PhD by publication is especially useful =because= it requires less supervision. Students are judged on the basis of their scholarship rather than their personalities, their attendance at seminars, or their willingness to work as lackeys on behalf of their professors.

I also think the PhD by publication often involves a more rigorous standard of evaluation. How many PhDs (traditional route) will get a serious book or several good articles from their dissertations? Few, I'd bet. On the other hand, nearly all PhDs by publication will have met this standard.

After a very strong MA program, I spent several years learning things I already knew -- taking courses that were of no value whatsoever for my dissertation or my subsequent research. I also spent several years convincing my (traditional) PhD committee to accept a dissertation comprised chiefly of published articles -- projects that had already been favorably evaluated by individuals with far greater expertise than some of my committee members.

In my view, PhD-granting departments should stop measuring inputs (hours spent in classes, etc.) and institute more rigorous methods of evaluating outputs. If a student wants to take courses and attend guest lectures, that's fine. If he wants to teach in order to build his resume, all the better.

At the same time, however, the research doctorate should be granted solely on the basis of scholarly attainment. In my opinion, that means (a) qualifying exams and (b) a dissertation that has survived anonymous peer review by outside experts. I think it's ridiculous that traditional programs rely on evaluations undertaken by the same faculty who have guided the student's research -- such an obvious conflict of interest.

Unfortunately, most PhD by publication programs accept only their own institution's alumni and staff. I hope that will change over time.

 

Yes, earned, and real, not an award, trophy, or purchase.

No problem there either. It would have been more exact to say that I am more interested in learning subject matters and researching issues that are of interest to me, rather than taking a set prescribed curriculum for a particular pre-designed degree. Anyone who has ever read Proverbs understands that all good plans require much counsel; I would eagerly seek advice and guidance from anyone who knows more than me!

Yes and No. I agree with the overall principles you describe....but as an academic, I am somewhat hesitant about shoehorning a student or even a study program into a "This is the method you must use, and this is how it has to be done" mold. I find most university programs on the undergrad level to be FAR to prescriptive, far too boxy, far too unbending in their willingness to join disciplines in new, creative ways. In fact, I find that "The Mold" often forces reiteration of something already known, or PC, rather than critical thinking applied in a new way. So, I might be Ok with what you wrote, but I guess I need to feel comfortable with the scope of things.

This *does* sound like what I'm looking for, and i thank all of you who have steered me in that direction.

I am not looking for less work, nor do I have any need to do this in a hurry. As i said, I don't 'need' this. And any paper(s) that come out of this will bear my name, and i will *not* embarass myself with trite garbage. I wrote a 35 page undergraduate term paper when I was a freshman (On Aquinas' Theory of Natural Law)....I don't accept that something like that should 'pass' for a thesis..I'm expecting real, weighty, *groundbreaking* work.

I only hold them Insofar as I bristle against rules that must be followed "for the rules sale." I have no argument with rules that move me towards my goal. Again, since this is entirely voluntary and unneeded for my life's work, I want it to be an enjoyable labor of love and not exist as a cog in a perfunctory research method.

That's too bad. On that, I will not budge. I'm tired of my Econ students being told that their analyses are unacceptable in a Sociology class. We do not live in boxes, we live in a complex existance where poli sci, scienmce, economics, anthro, history, spirituality, and other disciplines interwtine. Critical Thinking occurs when you cross disciplines, not when you isolate every other discipline and focus on one.

Thank you!!!!

marilynd [/QUOTE]

 

Re: Re: It's obvious gentleman....

Hopefully you realize that in making this statement you have contradicted yourself, twice. In your original posting you stated that you were interested in,
"...a low-cost institution that isn't up to 'USA' accrediting standards."
This means you're interested in a sub-standard degree program. You confirm this by expressing your interest in St. Clements. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried to steer you toward a respectable program. You say that Lampeter is too expensive and the UNISA website is "dreadful to navigate." I've got to tell you that the UNISA website is not that bad and someone who plans to send a lot of time poking around dusty old monasteries in search of obscure information had better not be put off by a complicated internet website. Then you state,
"If a school collects money and issues degrees after you send them something - anything - I am not interested." I believe you just described St. Clements. Then you made the statement quoted at the top of my posting. Another contradiction.
It now seems clear to me that what you want is to write a nice description of your previous "research" and then be granted a doctoral degree. Early on in this thread I offered some suggestions to you as to how you might achieve your goal. Having read the balance of the thread I now offer one final piece of advice. I'd like to suggest that you do a bit of a search of the degreeinfo archives. Look up a member named FNHayes. He had a problem like yours and found a solution that seems to be satisfactory for him. Don't tell your university colleagues however, you know how people will talk.

Jack

 

Re: Re: Re: It's obvious gentleman....

Those stateents are only contradictions if you *know* St. Clements to be a mill. I had no such knowledge; in fact, I have seen message boards where st. Clements was referred to as a 'third world university"- entirely appropriate for a degree from someone in Ghana or Zambia, but not up to western standards. If that is the case, I am *open* to that. But if it is a mere mill (and I am getting the impression that it is), then I am not. So, those statements are contradictory only if you assume that I knew what St.Clements was all about - which I didn't .

And FWIW, I find digging around dusty monestaries to be FUN. I find the South Africa site to be poor. Just an observation.

Nope. No such thing. I don't have more than 10 pages of coheren writing from current/past research. All I have done is whetted my appetite to do real indepth targetted research. Sorry you somehow got the wrong impression.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's obvious gentleman....

Yeah, OK, whatever, good luck.
Jack

 

Putting the record straight

I am the Dr Jeff Wooller who Dr John Bear has commented on adversely. And the reason that I like to use Dr is because I am proud of it after spending five years in getting it at CASS.

I am aware of the immense reputation of Dr Bear and truly believe that he has done a great job in highlighting many degree mills.

However, his comments in my case were a little wide of the mark. He has said that I was running the Irish International University out of a small office in a squalid building.

It is true that I used to be Vice Chancellor of the Irish International University. However, that was an honorary position and I never had any hand in the running of the university or any share of its profits. That University is accredited by reputable organisations such as the British Learning Association. It runs courses which are approved by Cambridge University Distance Learning. Some of their degree courses are run in collaboration with Judge College, Cambridge. Students are required to attend Judge College as part of the course.

As for the building in which I was alleged to be running this university we are talking of a building designed by the famous architect Edwin Lutyens. The building was opened by the Queen Mother and she also came back for an anniversary celebration at which I had the pleasure of meeting her.

The building was valued at £15 million. It was used by a variety of organisations to run their examinations. These included 'A' levels and the Institute of Chartered Accountants (ICAEW).

I had 3,500 square feet of accommodation. When the building was sold I received £500,000 pay off to vacate the premises. The building is now one of the top hotels of the Jewry Group.

 

Hi Jeff: Welcome aboard. What's CASS? Janko

 

Re: Putting the record straight

Odd that the vice-chancellorship was purely honourary - in most cases they are the ones pulling the strings. How many other honourary positions were there? Who really ran the university? The chap with the title of Adjunct Assistant Lecturer? The tea lady?

One more thing, a quick look at the British Learning Association's website shows a disclaimer (what membership of the BLA means) .

They do offer "Quality Marks" though. Is that what you mean? I couldn't see "Irish international University" as one of the organisations which have been granted it.

They have a membership list and I was unable to find "Irish International University" there either. Would it be listed under another name by any chance?

 

Re: Putting the record straight

A Google search for 'judge college cambridge' produced no hits.

There doesn't seem to be a Judge College at Cambridge University:

http://www.cam.ac.uk/cambuniv/colleges.html

 

I assume he means the Cass Business School at City University in London:

http://www.cass.city.ac.uk/

 

Re: Re: Putting the record straight

He might mean the Judge Institute of Management

 

Re: Re: Re: It's obvious gentleman....

LOL! Well gosh, I don't know anything about ducks....and I don't have a Queen to help me out.....but I do raise a rare breed of sheep.....

 

Maybe one of Middlesex University doctoral paths would meet your needs.
http://www.mdx.ac.uk/research/degrees/alternative.htm

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's obvious gentleman....

If you are having difficulty in navigating your way around a simple website, then maybe you should rethink whether or not you're really competent enough to be taking on a legitimate Ph.D. program.

 

More clarifications on Irish International University

CASS Business School, formerly City University Business School, is based in the City of London and ranks 73 in the Financial Times Global list of MBAs.

Judge College is better known as Judge Institute of Management and ranks number one in the UK on the Financial Times list of MBAs.

My reference to the British Learning Association should have made it clear that the organisation listed was ChrisThomas Consortium London (CCL), which has been the accrediting body in the UK for the degrees of the Irish International University (IIU).

CCL is shown as an accrediting body in 'UK Qualifications' published by Kogan Page.

The website of the IIU is www.iiuedu.ie where under News for 2003 you will find a photograph of my meeting with the then prime minister of Malaysia. He is the one who famously told Margaret Thatcher to 'take a running jump'.

On the website you will find lots of photographs of convocations. The ones in London have been held at London University and at Imperial College (also in the top 100 ratings). The last one I attended was attended also by three mayors alongwith 200 other guests. All photographs and gowns are provided by Ede & Ravenscroft, robemakers to the Royal Family.

The forthcoming convocation to be held at the University of Malaysia is expected to attract 1,000 students and guests.

The offices of the University in Kuala Lumpur and the quality of the staff compare more than favourably with those of any other university that I have seen. The teaching facilities also compare with anything that I have seen in the UK.

Most of the teaching is done by what are called 'providers'. Great strides are being made by providers in China. Last year in Malaysia I was honored to meet the Princess of China who attended the convocation.

The fees of the University are not low and it is not easy to get into the programs. I have been impressed by the vetting procedures in place in Malaysia.

 

I have a few more questions about "Irish International University". There is an Irish Examiner article which alleges that

May I ask for your comment on these allegations?

Also, neither Irish International University, or the European Business School appear to be recognised by either the Irish or UK governments (I presume your European Business School is distinct from the European Business School, London mentioned). On whose authority do you grant the degrees? By the way, you mention that you are accredited by "ChrisThomas Consortium London" (or is it Commission for Continous Learning?) but it is not mentioned on the Institutional Accreditation page. Is it a new developement, has accreditation been lost or simply forgotten?

Also you have made several references to a "UK Qualifications" published by Kogan Page. Can you describe the process of attaining a listing in the publication? Do they have stringent checks to ensure only legitimate organisations are listed (after all, there have been advertisments for "degree mills" within the Economist)?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's obvious gentleman....

You know, that is a really snotty, unnecessary obnoxious comment.

It adds nothing to the thread, provides no insight, and merely strokes your own ego.

Simply because a website exists does not mean it is user-friendly. I advise the Marketing students at our school, and website design is something we spend a great deal of time on.

Thanks for your useful comments.