WASC Accrediting Commission Meeting Today

At least it appears they will require comps....

The question is will they have to be done on sight and does that then negate the 100% online claim. I have always predicted 100% distance would fall by the wayside. May be wrong though.....

 

Actually, I agree with Han's post above ... a good
summary for the moment. See ... we can agree!

As to changes, compared to say two years ago,
the PhD program has already changed in many
ways ... and all for the better.

Such is true for just about any new idea, including
this being the first 100% DL PhD program.

Will there be more in the future? Probably, and that
could be, regardless of WASC/etc.

If I was NCU, or any others, as I know Nova has also
studied TUI's PhD format ... I'd certainly be watching
closely to see how their present/future plans might
also be impacted by this series of events.

All in all ... TUI, DL, and present/future students will be
better for the changes we see in today's academics.

With all of the public "I think" on a topic such as this
has been, for months now ... Me thinks that WASC and
TUI will communicate internally to dot the "i's" and to
cross all the possible "t's" before either goes public.

They may frequent sites such as this more than most
might realize and see the wide range of postings made.

Billy

 

It is nice that we can agree......

But I have a question, your last statement are those that are visiting sites like this to see what the consensus is, why do you think that TUI has made no statement at all, and also in perfect timing, stopped taking admission during this time in their PhD programs, then turned them back on again (I think it was linked to accreditation personally). It seems to me they might get out of this fine, but I think they should that they (TUI) handled the situtation very poorly by not providing the information to prospective students, current students (except by unofficial word of mouth), and making it the true PT Barnum days "Buyer beware"....... PR is am important thing in our society, and what happens is as important as how it was handled.....

 

Hi Han,

>It is nice that we can agree......

We probably agree on more things than
most might consider at first pass ... so let's
see how far we can walk together on this.

>But I have a question, your last statement are
>those that are visiting sites like this to see what
>the consensus is,

I think that's a great question to ask!

Let's hit the PAUSE button for a moment, and think
about this ... And, let's say you and I work for TUI.

We have a new program under our responsibility, and
we are in on-going private communications with the
various academic 'gate keepers' and 'rule makers'.

How much weight should the consensus, as found on
a public forum as this, ... where many of the posts are
at best, opinions expressed ... how much weighting
should this be given against other short to long-term
issues such as being successful in transfering from
Middle States to WASC with certain known challenges
due to the 100% DL/etc.? Is the concensus on here
really that valid or even accurate, or is it based on ........ ?

Do we make a statement to be champs as to the PR
of the moment or, do we continue the often SLOW
and detailed process that is going on below radar?

Those are the type of questions you and I might be
going back and forth internally about ... Can we make
a statement, without violating the internal private
communications with the other academic principals?

Recall posts on this forum, where such public comments
were viewed as not being the proper or legal actions
to be taking at THAT time ... So we have to take our heat
and wait this out, playing by the rules, and knowing when
it's all over and done. It will be best for ALL parties ...

Or, would it be better ... to be sure of what we can
be sure of ... namely, total agreement on what other
changes might need to be made ... and when ... to
wait out the public forum storms until the powers that
really matter in the case at hand, WASC and our school
have those "i's" and "t's" all double checked and OK?

Again, comparing TODAY's standards with those when I
first entered the program, it's much improved. However,
and hear/read this point ... I've watched the improvements
be put into play each and every session, for the better
over the course of the three years I have been in it. So I
don't feel the RA issue has been the ONLY driver for the
changes, some came sooner, others came later. But, I'm
the student, not the person who designed our program.

When I'm asked, you bet I share my two cents worth as
to what I think works well, and what needs to work well.
Each session, we do survey for those types of questions.

Has the RA issue been a driver? Certainly ... again we don't
have perfect knowledge, but we do agree changes come
SLOWLY if at all in academics. Rapid growth, no doubt to me
would be another factor as to the rate of making changes.

Commmunicating such is a challenge, no doubt.

BTW, is this really any different from how many companies
work? Not really ... "leaks" in those situations can cause
total collapse of ongoing private communications.

>why do you think that TUI has made no statement
>at all, and also in perfect timing, stopped taking
>admission during this time in their PhD programs, then
>turned them back on again (I think it was linked to
>accreditation personally).

Perhaps the key word that you are seeking is PUBLIC
statement? Internally, as with most any private type of
organization, there's been plenty of conversations. I'm
sure that the staff at TUI will, of all groups, be glad when
all this is past, and some other school rests in the sights
of many on here ... Again, my GUESS is that many other
organizations are QUIETLY watching this chain of events.

I also (opinion here) don't think TUI would have opened
the program back, facing fear of WASC shutting the program
back down, if there was ANY risk from taking on new students
under the existing program standards. Didn't the statement
from Middle States basically stop any additional enrollments
due to staffing/student ratios? TUI termed that a capacity issue,
which is exactly what that represents ... my point is that I'll
agree with you as to admission/accreditation being linked, but
that's nothing new either, as why wouldn't TUI work with both
Middle States AND WASC? They ARE the 'gate keepers' if you will.

Here's the critical point of difference between us ... notice your
words here, which is certainly your right to conclude ...

>It seems to me they might get out of this fine, but I
>think they should that they (TUI) handled the situtation
>very poorly by not providing the information to prospective
>students, current students (except by unofficial word of mouth),

"It seems to me" ... I am 100% sure it does to you. But not
to me, looking from the inside as a student, and there's no
doubt a wide range of other opinions between our views.

And each of us, based on whatever amount of information,
be it accurate or BS, has/can/will draw their own conclusions
as to THIS is WHAT TUI should have done and THIS is WHEN.

BTW, current students have not been barred from asking
questions on this topic. It's falls into the same questions
of "OK, what about AACSB?" All those questions have value,
and many will continue to be asked for some time, such as
the AACSB ... I'd like to see that one too someday. We'll see
as that's going to be more of a medium/long term item ...

>and making it the true PT Barnum days "Buyer beware"
>....... PR is am important thing in our society, and what
>happens is as important as how it was handled.....

While I do agree that PR is an important part of the total
product/marketing ... you still have to balance ALL of the
factors, including less than perfect knowledge, which is
where we are at the moment. Short-term verses long and
so on ... Long term, say 3 years from now ... will all parties
look back and say "Ohhhhhh ... that makes sense now!"

I believe so ... not just for TUI, but for NCU, Nova, who ever
is brave enough after all the TUI bashing, to try to be the
ones to bring the next new thing into the academic world.

But to say TUI is a PT Barnum example is a bit too much
over the edge, for other than varying opinion, nothing
merits such a negative comparision at this time.

All things considered, knowing there's no one right way
to PR topics ... especially with knowing that there are
detailed private communications ongoing ... I believe TUI's
position for the short-term has been justified.

You don't, and hey ... that's OK too.

Moving ahead, I expect we'll see more PUBLIC statements
perhaps ... then again, this is not a typical public school so
I'm not certain TUI will every 100% statisfy some expectations
as to what/when/how/why they should explain their actions.

I am afraid the above is where we'll have to agree to disagree
for the moment. You and I still don't know the whole story,
so I'm not about to jump into that bucket based on what we
know, and what we simply don't know.

Sorry for the length of my reply, but I wanted to try and show
equal value in your questions/opinions as well as mine, and
not appear to 'attack' your right to ask questions on the topic.

If there's anything you'd like to push-back on, please do, as
I believe soon, TUI will be off the radar screen of many ...

Thanks,

Billy

TUI Learner

 

Thank you for the great response. The only part I disagree is the extent to which PR effects today's busines. I tech PR at a University of seniors, and we analyze two companies, with a very similar situation, and through their PR one is a success, the other is out of business. PR is the cornerstone of business today, the media is a huge factor.... but I will leave that for another thread at another time.

I would have done things differently, but all may not feel the same way. There was s tudent that posted here that they were accepted to TUI and was going to accept, and asked for any thoughts. They were shocked to find out HERE about the accreditation issues and near future transfer. I feel that is wrong, and they should be up front about it, "Don't let the press come to you".... first step in crisis management. Just my opinion though. We will see soon enough.

 

Hey Han,

>Thank you for the great response.

You are welcome, and thanks for asking
such a great question to ponder on.

>The only part I disagree is the extent to which PR
>effects today's busines. I tech PR at a University of
>seniors, and we analyze two companies, with a very
>similar situation, and through their PR one is a success,
>the other is out of business. PR is the cornerstone of
>business today, the media is a huge factor.... but I will
>leave that for another thread at another time.

Actually I DO want to agree with your statement here
and underscore PR's value. As I mentioned, PR is a part
of the total 'mix', no doubt. And today, PR has more
value (real or perceived) than ever before. No debate.

The question of comparing two companies, be it with
their A/R or with the PR ... what is 'perfect knowledge'
to base a no-fault, iron-clad, THIS is always THE way.

My background is corporate/manufacturing/engineering,
in fact very similar to yours (aerospace if I recall). In my
family are three generations of educators. And many a
night has been consumed over why does the academy
do things so very much different from many business
type settings ... My father helped build a very successful
new program at a RA university, the process was SLOW.

To honor the rules of the 'gate keepers' often meant there
were delays in public communications ... but to see the goal
accomplished, they would do what was best, over the long
term, even if for the moment, "heat" was applied from others.

But for the system in play at the time, it just simply would not
allow great PR, or at the level they really wanted to do ...

So perhaps that's why I 'view' the TUI setting in a bit of a
different lamplight than others might. The good news is that
forums such as this, properly and accurately used, can help
to raise the value of PR in academics as we move forward.

Again to underscore your point, PR is an important value,
be real about what an existing system presently will allow,
and then work to create a strategy to raise that present bar.

>I would have done things differently, but all may not feel
>the same way.

We might have, or might have wanted to ... but that might
not have worked well within the 'system', with our backgrounds
coming from the business settings ... who knows. The reality
is that BOTH of us someday might just find ourselves on the
inside of such a process ... then we'll have to really decide,
what's the best possible course of action. Interesting ...

>There was student that posted here that they were accepted
>to TUI and was going to accept, and asked for any thoughts.

Yes, I read those posts on various schools on here too, and
wonder all sorts of things ... Like TESC, I had NO problems
with them, others seem to start and stay on the wrong foot.
Like I said, it makes me wonder about all the varying factors.

>They were shocked to find out HERE about the accreditation
>issues and near future transfer. I feel that is wrong, and they
>should be up front about it, "Don't let the press come to you"
>.... first step in crisis >management. Just my opinion though.

You and I probably know x times what most students KNOW
about accreditation, perhaps x times too much. If I were to
ask any of my adult children, who are in various RA schools
in their different programs, Hey WHO is your school's actual
accreditation agency, & I'll make it easy, I'll list the names?

Not a one of them could answer (though they MIGHT begin
to wonder about dear old Dad for a moment of two). My point
here is that TUI for every day of the last x years has held RA,
and to the best of their efforts, plans to continue to do so. It's
my opinion that holding close any possible, but not probable
RA concerns would not be considered a breach. We disagree.

Think about engineering settings ... in terms of TQM/IS/QS/TS.
Discovering new issues does not mean doom, it means get on
it, and get it fixed, and fast, or so we hope!

Again, that's how I view the ongoing events at TUI. Lots of
discovery, lots of changes, lots of questions as to how best
communicate items that really, as per TQM, should be, will be,
and/or were addressed as best and as fast as the present
academic system will allow.

Maybe that would be an interesting dissertation for some
one to complete some day ... TQM applied to the academy.

>We will see soon enough.

Indeed we will, and a solution that ALL can live with too I hope!

Billy

 

Until I see it in writing I will not believe TUI received accreditation. I have looked at both the TUI and the WASC websites and found no evidence that this issue is resolved.

 

That is not an unreasonable posture to take. My understanding from a discussion I had a couple days ago with a WASC staff member is that the information will be made public by Monday, March 7. But so much speculation overshadows this issue, I can understand skepticism.

 

Accredited

Touro University International (TUI) is accredited by the Accrediting Commission for Senior Colleges and Universities of the Western Association of Schools and Colleges, 985 Atlantic Avenue, #100, Alameda, CA 94501, 510-748-9001

 

Check the WASC site:


http://www.wascweb.org/senior/directories.htm#T