Patrick Henry College

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by CB3, Feb 6, 2005.

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  1. CB3

    CB3 New Member

    I am wondering if anyone has any experience or knowledge about this college? The Bachelor of Arts in the Government Major - Strategic Intelligence Track is my major interest. In order to gain
    employment in an intelligence agency. The accreditation has me worried somewhat. The college says, "Yes, PHC is "preaccredited" by one accreditor and has "candidate" status by another. These accreditation designations carry the same rights and benefits of full accreditation and are the normal status for a newly accredited institution." Here is a link concerning accreditation:

    http://www.phc.edu/admissions/AuthorizationAccreditation.asp

    Thanks in advance for the help..cb3
     
  2. Lawhopes

    Lawhopes New Member

    Our family has been closely associated with the Home School Legal Defense Association which was founded by the same individual (Michael Farris) as PHC. Therefore, we have kept up-to-date on the developings of this college. The only reason I am not attending right now is cost. They are slightly more on the expensive side as a new institution and do not allow governmental aid to their students. They are an extremely conservative, Christian (Baptist leaning) college and require a belief in the basic tenets of Christianity for acceptance.

    While currently unaccredited, the only and sole reason is because they refuse to teach evolution as fact and teach the Christian view of creation. That was stated as much in the initial refusal for accreditation by the evaluating committee. This is in appeal as discrimination as this same organization they are applying to has accredited similar colleges in the past; hence PHC's current status of "candidate."

    In regards to this, the college was founded pricipally for the purpose of pre-legal and legal education although there are other majors and fields of study. While unaccredited, the graduates have 100% acceptance into law schools. The first two years are more academic, while the second two years involve apprenticeship and internship programs for credit.

    This college certainly attracts the best of the best given the average SAT of the applicants. While I do not remember the exact figure, it was well above the national average.

    I know first-hand and second-hand many individuals going there and everyone has only had praise for the education and expectation levels. I know one person in the intelligence track and he is very pleased. You even graduate with a security clearance!

    Etienne
     
  3. CB3

    CB3 New Member

    Thanks for information

    This is wonderful information Etienne. When I read that government aid is not available that hurt me because I do need some financial assistance. I really like what Patrick Henry College has to offer and with the Strategic Intelligence Track it makes it all the better. Also to graduate with a security clearance is awesome! I wish I could afford to study there. This college has a great deal to offer.
     
  4. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    My impression is that intelligence agencies prefer to teach actual intelligence trade skills in-house.

    When they are recruiting, I think that they are usually looking for broader skills and background that match their needs at that particular moment. That might mean knowledge of a particular country or region's culture and politics, specialized science and engineering expertise, and/or the always popular language skills.

    If I were contemplating a career with the CIA, NSA or a similar agency in the current international climate, I'd think about doing an international studies or even an Islamic studies major, and I'd try to acquire at least a decent reading knowledge of Arabic.
     
  5. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Patrick Henry College is currently a candidate for accreditation by the American Academy of Liberal Education (AALE) and the Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools (TRACS). Both AALE and TRACS are recognized accreditors (national, not regional) by the U.S. Department of Education.

    This is PUC's statement on accreditation found on it's website:
    http://www.phc.edu/admissions/AuthorizationAccreditation.asp

    Why is Accreditation Important to Patrick Henry College?

    Patrick Henry College is committed to private accreditation for three reasons. First, the College believes that accreditation communicates a commitment to the assurance of a quality education, and does so without any compromise of the College's Christian mission. Second, many students and donors to the College expect the College to be accredited. Third, achieving accreditation within reasonable time frames is a requirement for operating a College such as PHC in the Commonwealth of Virginia. It is common for institutions to hold multiple accreditations to meet the various expectations of its constituencies. Candidacy status is the normal and expected state for all new colleges, and it is what the college must obtain first.

    Tony Pina
    Administrator, Northeastern Illinois University
     
  6. CB3

    CB3 New Member

    Re: Re: Patrick Henry College

    Absolutely, I believe you are correct Bill.
    I am looking for any type of studies regarding this in an online fashion. I have looked into American Public University with their intelligence studies
    and I believe they have an area of concentration in Middle Eastern Studies. However, I wonder about their accreditation. I know they are in RA candidate status at the moment. But I wonder how I would stack up against the competition with bigger name degrees? I don't have the time to go back to school at a B&M institution. So I face quite the dilemma at the moment. I am highly interested in foreign language and learning a specific area in the world. Perhaps, area studies would work out. At the moment, I am looking at all options here regarding hard to find majors in the area I seek for employment. If anyone has any ideas of where I can obtain a degree in these areas I would be appreciative in every way. Thanks for replying ladies and gentlemen.

    -cb3
     
  7. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I was invited to give two presentations at the National Home School Legal Defense national convention a few years ago. I was awfully impressed by the sincerity and dedication of Mr. Farris and his colleagues . . . and, in a way, even more impressed that they invited me (and were extremely cordial) knowing that I was not a Christian and not especially sympathetic to their political or religious stance. They were very up front. They wanted to hear what I had to say. Informally, people there talked about a goal of having a fair number of their graduates in the U.S. Senate in a number of years, and a couple on the Supreme Court.

    John Bear, who has bookmarked
    www.immigrationinfocanada.com
     
  8. Tracy Gies

    Tracy Gies New Member

    Thats an amazing claim. First of all I doubt that everyone who is admitted to the program will qualify for a clearance. Unless the school somehow screens out those who won't qualify before they enroll, I don't see how everyone in the program could graduate with a clearance. There are various disqualifiers, which include (but are not limited to) drug use, past felony convictions, and nationality. In other words, if the school guarantees security clearances to graduates, I'd be somewhat suspicious of that claim.

    Second, I believe getting a security clearance first requires that a person has need to know. It's doubtful that everyone who graduates from the Strat Intell program will get jobs that require access to sensative information. Also, clearances come in several levels, up to Top Secret--SCI, what level of clearance does PHC claim their students will graduate with? That may be very important if you want a job with a specific agency. It's safe to say that NSA would require a TS-SCI clearance.

    Which leads to my third point. A TS-SCI clearance requires a lengthy and expensive background investigation, the cost for which I've heard can run as high as $50,000. Who foots the bill for that?

    Moreover, I think Bill's right about agencies prefering to teach skills in-house. Even then they are going to want people with the right backgrounds. For the CIA, that may mean people who have experience in Human Intelligence (HUMINT), for the NSA it more likely means people who have experience in Signals Intelligence (SIGINT). You may have a better chance of securing employment with either of these agencies after first gaining some experience in an appropriate military occupation. For example, if you want employment in the CIA, you might consider working as a HUMINT collector (Army Military Occupational Specialty [MOS]97E, Arabic, preferablly, as Bill says), or as a counter-intelligence agent (MOS 97B). Since the NSA deals with SIGINT, appropriate specialties might include voice interceptor (MOS 98G, again with Arabic language skills), as a SIGINT analyst (Army MOS 98C). Intellegence analysts (MOS 96B) may be employed by both agencies.

    Of course the other services have their own specialties which are equivalent to the Army's, so take your pick. The real key is practical skills as a collector or an analyst. After looking at PHC's Strat Intel curriculum, I don't think it offers those. The theory is nice, but NSA and CIA want people who can collect and process intelligence. That's what the military offers. What's more, if your MOS requires a language, the military will send you to school for that too, in beautiful Monterey, CA, at the Defense Language Institute. Better still, you will graduate from the appropriate MOS-producing school with a clearance. Not that it's even guaranteed then, I've seen some Soldiers reclassified into different MOSs because it turned out that they couldn't qualify for a clearance. However, those who do qualify for the clearance, get it paid for by Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer.

    None of this is to say that I have any problem with PHC (other than a somewhat dubious claim that Strat Intell graduates leave the program with a "security clearance"). I have looked at their program, and it seems fine for theoretical knowledge. As one who has five homeschooled children and believes in Christ as He is presented in the Bible, I have a great deal of respect for Farris and for PHC. However, NSA and CIA need practitioners. You'll probably have to develop practical skills elsewhere. The military is one place where that would be possible, though there may be others. More good news: after spending four or so years in the military, you will probably have benefits that will help you pay for college. Sadly, you may not be able to use those benefits at PHC. Since it is not regionally accredited and does not accept government aid for it's students, it's doubtful that you could use your GI benefits to pay for an education there.

    Blessings, anyway.

    P.S. I have been a 98G for the past 18 and a quarter years. It's worked out well for me. If you're serious about employment at the CIA or NSA, a few years in the military might be a worthwhile investment. If you want another route to the NSA, I hear they have an ongoing and desparate need for talented mathmeticians.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2005
  9. CB3

    CB3 New Member

    Thanks for the great information. :) You provided a valuable insight on what to do regarding employment in the
    intelligence field. I am looking into the http://www.nsa.gov They are looking for no specific major in cryptanalysis.


    NSA said, "Cryptanalysis is the art and science of solving cryptograms (writings in cipher or code) or cryptographic systems (devices for enciphering and deciphering). Cryptanalysts utilize Mathematics, Computer Programming, Engineering, and language skills as well as new technologies and creativity to systematically analyze basic elements in a cipher code to find a solution. Cryptanalysts at NSA have the unique opportunity to work with high power workstations and supercomputers to develop their own hardware and software tools for solving analytic tasks. No specific major is targeted for Cryptanalysis; NSA hires people with technical and non-technical degrees, ranging from Mathematics to Music, Engineering to History, and Computer Programming to Chemistry."

    Perhaps, I can get a degree fast with one of the big three. Next, apply for this program they have where they give you extensive in-house and in-the-classroom training. Do you think they will frown on me for going to excelsior, tesc, or cosc? And getting a degree at a fast pace by testing out of classes? I have eight-years of experience in a reserve military capacity and a two-year business degree. So going back into the military at my age isn't going to work for me; especially, now being in my thirties at this point.
    I am looking for any career advice possible. Thanks everyone.
     
  10. Lawhopes

    Lawhopes New Member

    Well, Tracy, apparently you know MUCH more about this than me. I don't have a clue what half of what you said is. In regards to the security clearance, I was merely conveying what was sent to me in an e-mail update when they started the program. Furthermore, they are only one of two colleges with some kind of special computers used in the intelligence industy. I don't know exactly what all that is, but I'll try to find it. Also, you mention practical experience. It is notable to mention that with PHC, the first two years are pretty much your standard classroom education. But the last two years are an apprenticeship relating to your major study area. Those in the government program who wish to go to law school will usually study in a law office. Those who wish to go into politics will intern. So it is reasonable to assume that students will receive SOME kind of practical hands-on experience. Also, recently PHC DID win the debate with Oxford University on Oxford's home turf.

    I'm sure that with this under-emphasized area of study, there are many arguable routes, all equally valid based on what exactly one wants to do.

    Etienne
     

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