US Nursing Licensure through loophole?

Re: Re: ?/comment

So, what's you're actually suggesting? That those foreign nurses somehow have more opportunities than U.S. trained and they have it EASIER? That's ridiculous.

 

What appears to be missing from the discussion is the effect that this reliance on foreign-born/educated nurses is having on health services in Asian and African source countries where the need for skilled healthcare workers is far greater than in the US or other developed nations that suffer from a shortage of nurses/doctors.

The so-called 'brain drain' has left many countries in sub-Saharan Africa with an absolute dearth of qualified nurses and doctors. The problem is particularly acute in Ghana and Zimbabwe where it is estimated that 75 percent of doctors leave for employment abroad within a few years of graduating. Considering the region is being ravaged by AIDS, among other health concerns, it seems unethical to say the least that we, in the West, are becoming reliant on their healthcare workers.

Developed nations need to face up to and respond to their own shortages by taking a long-term view of the problem and build capacity and incentives at home to train and attract nurses, rather than poaching intellectual capital from countries that simply cannot afford to lose it.

To add insult to injury, many of these foreign-trained nurses now working in the developed world were trained in academic institutions heavily or entirely subsidized by their respective governments where education is provided as a public good and viewed as an investment in the country's future.

Essentially, the world's poorest countries are providing medical aid to the world's richest. The United Nations estimates that every time Malawi educates a doctor who practices in Britain, it saves Britain $184,000.

Where the ethics in that are, I do not know. What is for sure, however, is that a lot of recruitment agencies are getting fat off the back of governments with limited resources as the US, among others, continues to beg, borrow and steal rather than get their own houses in order.

 

Right you are. As someone who has put in some time I fully appreciate that point of view and understand completely. I cannot (and will not) do bedside nursing anymore but I am so grateful for the good ones who are there. I'm still hoping to contribute to a noble profession but it will have to be through research not under a whip in unsafe conditions.
Congratulations to your wife - I wish her the best.

 

Clarky, thank you for your thought provoking piece. One commentator has dubbed the issue as modern day slavery although I won't go as far as characterizing it as such. The issue of brain drain is not limited to the medical profession. Britain, Canada, Australia, the U.S and others have been quietly offering permanent residencies to people of less developed countries with advanced degrees and moving them into their workforce.

These less developed countries also share some of the blames. If the leaderships of these countries were not so corrupt and if they were to provide basic level of amenities for their citizens may be it won't be so attractive for their best and brightest to leave.

Oko

 

Rich;

My wife is a former R.N. and agrees with everything you've said. After many years of nursing, she finally had enough and left the field about 3 years ago. She got sick of things like abuse from physicians, lack of respect, being scapegoated when things go wrong, lousy hours, poor pay, a ruined back etc. She took a job as a teacher's associate and a huge pay cut but now couldn't be happier.

 

While I agree with this statement, I believe it doesn't put the weight of the matter on the parties that truly contribute to the problem: corporations are, of course, raking in every penny on the backs of the middle class.

Those jobs are being taken by immigrants whose standard of living is such that it is impossible for Americans to compete with foreign-born workers.

The government is controlled by corporations that pay lobbyists and contribute to campaigns. These same companies in the healthcare business spend a good deal of money to ensure they get a continuous cheap supply of labor.

While I am all for global trade, it is clear that global trade cannot be fair unless everyone is on the same playing field. Other countries must not only treat their workers fairly within their current system, but they must also change their labor laws to meet the same standard that the US employer must meet.

 

Are you saying here that other countries must take steps to improve job market in the USA? Why, oh why?

 

No. I'm saying that the USA must stop treating people from third world countries like slave labor.

 

Sure. But you used words "other countries must...", didn't you?

Anyways, I'm not convinced that a foreign-trained (say, ukrainian) nurse in the U. S. hospital really feels like being treated like slave labor. As a programmer in an Irish company during last months of the "IT shortage", I surely didn't feel that way

 

No, the Ukrainian or Phillipino nurse may not feel like they are being treated like slave labor, but then they may be comparing their life to one outside the US.

Not to mention, if the US doesn't treat me well, I don't have the option to run off to another country. Most other countries in the western world have tighter immigration laws.

 

Sure they are. So?

Poor you, having nowhere to run from the richest country in the world!

See, I'm from Ukraine. It is not the worst coutry of the Third World, mind you. But still, hearing that new immigrants have some unfair advantage over locals??? Try being in their shoes.

 

Re: ?/comment

Having just completed one of the new accelerated BSN programs (on campus) and working previously with nursing programs, the shortage is largely affected by the number of available educators. Specific instructor - student ratios are required for accreditation in schools, but salaries and available nurses with MSN degrees are both low. Thus, schools are forced to accept a small number into programs. That's a huge part of why we can't push more nurses out of school and into the workforce. Hopefully the accelerated programs are able to help out a little with the shortage.

 

Re: Re: ?/comment

Whoops, I just saw this post after making mine.

 

So why aren't we importing nurse teachers then?

Most will disagree, but I think because the corporations are running the show, they prefer to just bring in cheap labor for greater short term, quarterly profit.

Who needs a long term plan when the CEOs run up the stock prices, cash in, and bail out every two years!!??

 

Online Nursing tutorial school headline news Salt Lake Tribune

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2511205


"Academy defaults; students on hook
Loans due: The Salt Lake school illegally collected tuition; the state wonders where money went
By Linda Fantin
The Salt Lake Tribune "

 

That line of reasoning doesn't work... see... if they have MSNs, then they too can work for more money as say bedside nurses than educators. Why would they take a job for half the money to teach when they can work with patients and make a bigger salary?

 

Immigration laws are tailored to be of use to the country. If you come to this country on a specific visa, then the US can stipulate that the worker only do a certain job here for a certain amount of time. So we import teachers the same way we import IT workers, but do it TEMPORARILY and ENFORCE the law.

 

ooooo, there is so much i want to say. but this is not the right forum.

oh, how is wish this thread was in the off topic zone.

moderators, what do you think?

 

We could just start the new topic in the off topic or politics forum...you go first...