Navy OCS - NA or RA

Scott,

The only Navy officer community that provides selection rates and project the number of applicatons is the CWO/LDO programs. Maybe they can do this because it is 100% in-service procurement compared to the other communities which gets officers off the street as well as in-service.

And, I agree with you that not providing the selection rates might allow for more applications because some individuals might be turned off if the selection rates are extremely low.

Fred

 

Fred, you are absolutely correct. I was speaking specifically to OCS candidates off the street.

 

Re: Re: Re: Navy OCS

Scooter,

I was referring to the latest historical statistics. That is what the AF recruiter gave me (selection stats for FY04). He was able to tell me the total packages received, average GPA of those selected, average AFQT test scores of those selected, etc.

But that hard info on the quotas was a HUGE help.

How do they determine if it will be FY05 or FY06?

As for Mustang, there are somewhat hard stats for STA-21. If you've noticed, each selection board message they will mention how many packages were received. Then all you have to do is count the total number of people selected to get an idea as to your chances of making it. FY04, it was about a 1 in 4 chance. For FY05, it was about 1 in 6. Better than many enlisted rates to make chief, (or even petty officer....AME3 was 6 out of 320...... appx 2%). Other commissioning statistics can be deduced in a similar method.

If you submit a second, third, 4th etc package, do they weigh in the fact that you've submitted previous packages earlier positively?

Scooter, why would you say that it is a bad thing? Gathering as much "intel" on a task and being able to apply it best is what the military (and life) is all about. Wouldn't you want to know (to the best of your ability) what you're up against? If I'd known that they were only selecting 6 AME3 to advance before I took the exam (out of 300+), would I have even showed up for the test? There is a point where you have to be realistic about a situation.

Scooter, Mustang, Please advise.

 

OTOH, as a mid-80's Academy person, there is not a day since then that I do not draw down on the skills, confidence, and training I received at the Naval Academy. It has enabled me to succeed in government service, law, academically (JD, LLM, MS, ABD PhD) and in life.

 

Competitive Profile

I concur with your thinking. You want to put yourself in the best position possible for success (read selection).

You have a couple of things in your corner. First, you're serving active duty. That helps tremendously if you are in a supply-related rating (AK, SK, etc.)

The big guns in Millington do publish a "competitive profile" which the recruiters in the field use as a guide when prospecting applicants. Right now, typical Supply Corps selectee's posess the following characteristics:

GPA: 3.3+
OAR: 50 (Officer Aptitude Rating, part of the ASTB test)
Age: 29 (This indicates "real world" leadership. Of course, your active-duty time would substitute for this).
Bachelor's: Business-related
Master's: MBA preferred.

Note: A Master's is not a requirement, by instruction. However, historical data from the past two years make it practically a pre-requisite.

With the information you have provided, I think you would have a better than not chance of getting selected. I would recommend you get a community interview with at least one Supply Corps officer (CDR/CAPT). Make sure they provide it on NAVCRUIT 1100/13. You can also provide letters of recommendation: from a professor, clergy, Naval Officer, etc. Ask for a bunch and pick the best three.

You should start studying for the ASTB. If you get one of the study guides, cutting a 50 is not difficult.

A good study guide is published by ARCO, titled Military Flight Aptitude Tests, by Solomon Wiener. ISBN# 0768910293. Do not study the Biographical Inventory sections, they do not count any longer.

Hope this helps. By all means I strongly suggest you apply. Good luck!!

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Navy OCS

Sorry, forgot to answer that one. The FY you count toward is the FY you "graduate" from OCS (get commissioned). If you report to OCS the first couple weeks of July 2005, you would actually graduate in October 2005, thus putting you in FY06. I would massage your application "date available for OCS" to reflect this. It is in your best interest. Interestingly, you would count as an FY05 for your recruiter. Confusing?

Also, the board does look favorably upon folks who apply two or three times. Typically, they want to see something significant change between applications, however. Re-applying just for the sake of re-applying will get you shot down quickly.

Scott

 

I concur with all that Scott has stated.

I know that the LDO/CWO programs also look favorably at people that have preiously applied if as Scott stated, they have done something positive to improve their chances of selection. A lot of folks just change the dates and then submit their packages again. If you do that, then it will not help you.

In my opinion, the people that get commissioned are the ones that want it the most. And the way to get selected is to make your record stand out by:

- break out in the "top of the pack" in enlisted peformance evaluations
- score as high as you can on the physical readiness test
- get warfare qualified (ESWS, EAWS, etc.)
- take demanding assignments for your rating
- talk to senior folks in the community that you are interested in getting into and get letters of recommendation from them.
- keep taking classes

Fred

 

Absolutely! I was waiting for someone to say this. You may become qualified to submit a package for a commissioning package because of college degrees and they may even add points on other selection boards, but you will not be competitive without demonstrating sustained superior performance both as a leader and as a technician.

Joshua,

I think you should take advantage of every opportunity to participate in a Navy-wide exam for many reasons. Here are two practical ones for participating in this hypothetical AME3 exam.

1. Six candidates will be selected for advancement. Why shouldn't it by you. I know a young man (not me) who was 1 of 5 Second Class Personnelmen selected from a particular exam.

2. You want to demonstrate sustained superior performance. Should you be nominated for the Command Advancement Program (Blue Jacket/Sailor of the Quarter/Year etc.), and I'm a Chief Petty Officer in your squadron I would not only not vote for you I would make the case that you should not be selected because you failed to report for the exam.

Anyway, as you may know quotas are vacancy driven and, in the case of E-4 – E-6 exams, are only released days prior to the release of the actual advancement results.

I wish you all the best on your journey.

 

So how are the quotas now?

Scooter or all,

I have recently returned from deployment.

My package is currently in route, although due to the movement and other bulls**t of being junior in a squadron it is taking longer than normal.

I was just curious to know about the most recent updates in the 'competitive profile' as well as any changes in the FY05 and FY06 quotas, for

Supply Corps
Medical Service Corps
Aviation Maintenance Duty Officer

Well, you might as well list all the corps, as I'm sure that others (including myself) may find the stats useful. But I'm particularly concerned with Supply.

BTW, I cut a 55 on the OAR, back in Feb, 2004 without really studying or taking any practice tests. I was told even by the test administrator that it was a GREAT score and, unless I was going for pilot/nfo (got 3 on the pilot, 5 on the NFO part, and 5 for the Academic Qualifications Rating) TO LEAVE THE 55 alone and let it stand.

Do you think I should re-take it? Or put in the package as is now, then if it doesn't go through the first time, then try to retake the exam?

 

My original commission was as a Supply Corps ensign in 1977. It's probably the best overall officer community in the Navy but only if you don't mind spending your career as a second class citizen. The line boys, and especially the brownshoes, really look down on the lowly porkchop.

The Supply Corps officer enjoys a much better sea/shore rotation schedual, however, and Supply types tend to look out for each other, a sentiment noticably lacking among Surface Line officers.

 

Don't underestimate that sea/shore rotation. When I was in the Navy (1981-1985), one of the reasons I left (but, trust me, not the only reason!) was that rotation. My rating had a 5/2. Yes, that's five years at sea and two years shore duty. And there was no way out of that rating because it was highly in demand at the time.

Be careful of the little things: they really and truly are important.



Tom Nixon

 

Wow, I'm surprised this thread made it back to the top. Thanks all for your replies to my original post.

Scooter, thanks for that response. Prior to posting here I had actually spoken to an officer recruiter in my area. His response to me was "what's the difference between NA and RA?" and "I don't think we'd have a problem accepting NA". Wasn't very reassuring. Hence the reason I tried to find the answer online and on this forum. As an FYI, I am hoping to apply for the USNR Intel DCO program in about a year or two. I know of three comrades (2 Navy and 1 former Army) who succesfully made it through the program.

In the end, I ended up continuing my studies with AMU. For me, it's the quickest way to a degree. Hopefully they'll get their RA before I graduate.

 

AMU is a very good school, and well respected in the military community. From what I have seen, most enlisted personnel are enrolled in either AMU, UMUC, or UOP, depending on how the Education Officer advised them. UMUC is the biggest in this area (northern VA). Many of my graduate students are from nationally accredited schools (ITT, Grantham, AMU/APUS, GIBBS (formerly WBS), Ashworth, and Aspen to name a few), and there are also plenty of NA grads at the state universities (George Mason, Virginia Tech extension, Old Dominion, George Washington). I have a few friends w/ degrees from ITT, AMU and Stratford (accredited by ACICS), and they had no problems getting their commissions or getting into grad school (one goes to George Mason, one to UOP and one to George washington). I am not in the military myself, just offering my personal experiences based on my job and word of mouth from close friends.

 

I know most here are talking about Navy OCS, but also saw a couple of posts re: FY04 Air Force OTS. Any stats the Air Force gave you for FY04 (especially non-tech) aren't going to synch-up with what happens in FY05. The 2nd (there are 2 annually) Air Force OTS Non-Tech board for FY04 had like an 80% acceptance rate which is VERY uncommon/high. The results for the first FY05 NT board came out last week, and the acceptance rate was around 12%. There's even talk that the 2nd board (currently scheduled for March) will be cancelled because all the slots were filled on the first one. There may not be another AF OTS NT board for 12-13 months.


Sort of OT, but just curious. I see there are a couple of Navy civilian employees on this thread...how did you get hired into the system? I was out on the Navy's personnel website last week, and filled out the online application for several positions I was interested in...without knowing anyone in personnel, I could see that app going into an online black hole though. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Lurker,

The first thing you need to do is narrow the job search down to the jobs that you are interested in. Two, I recommend calling a subject matter expert to discuss the job description that is posted on with someone in the organization or another organization with similar job descriptions.

After contacting the subject matter expert on the job that you are interested in, ask him or her for the "key words" that will allow your online resume to be "triggered" and submitted to a hiring manager after you submit it. After obtaining a laundry list of key words then you need to tailor your resume by putting those key into the resume.

For example, I work with the Department of the Navy as a civilian employee as a military human resource specialist. The key words in my particular field is anything that pertains to the complete military human resource life cycle such as recruiting, advancement, training, legal, pay, travel, separation, retirement, benefits, etc. etc.

Let me know if this helps. If not, please e-mail and I will provide more detail.

Fred

 

That is uncommon, especially for the second board. I didn't realize that there were two. Originally thought there were 4, but that's only for the techies. But with such limited slots, the AF recruiter I talked to mentioned only the one when the fiscal year came out with new quotas (October).

Funny how the 'enlisted to officer' programs for the AF are having much higher acceptance rates. (at least in the past. Haven't seen the selection statistics for Dec, 2004 yet. But if consistent with the other years, should be fairly high.

Navy e --> o selection statistics is so-so. Better than some enlisted ratings believe it or not. But that's the way it is sometimes....

A lot of times, it's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time. I was seriously considering securing the conditional release, but I'll take my chances with Navy supply for now.

 

You MIGHT consider applying to the U.S. Army. If a commission is what you are after, and there's good reason to seek one, the Army is growing right now. If you are accepted, the Navy would probably discharge you for the purpose.

 

ybf-
As I said, this last board was tough for everyone that applied (enlisted & civilian) but I do think the AF likes to promote from within. IMO it's less subjective because the board has EPR's, commander LOR's, etc. staring them in the face when reviewing the package...don't have that with civilian applicants.

I do think younger troops have a slight advantage over older ones (10-12+ years in) though from what I've seen.



Fred-
I sent you an email re: your response.

 

Go for it...I have no regrets for staying enlisted after meeting the requirements for OCS, I enjoy my job, but, I must say I would not follow the same career path I followed this time if I had it to do over, I would go officer (for numerous reasons, but none important to this discussio). Now, later in my career, I am pursuing my MBA through Morehead State, and still I have no regrets, I enjoy being a scout and a Platoon Sergeant, and that is what matters. For you though, you are thinking of it, so go for it...otheriwse you may regret it. Good luck.

SFC William Parker
"Scouts Out"

 

officer or out.....

I totally respect your decision. The Navy (and the military in general) works out better for some people than it does for others.

However, I'm more than just "thinking about it." There is no other option. If I don't get picked up, there is a 99.9% chance that I would get out and go 'supply' in the civilian sector (including using the early transition program, if eligible). Or work in the test administration field for a college or something. There are a lot of reasons, both personal and professional why, that I also won't list here

Exception: I may cross rate to IT if I get a non-select for OCS. But I'd still get out once the tour was over anyway. I still have 2.5 years left on my enlistment contract, so at 22.5 yrs old, I still have time.

You can pm me or shoot me an e-mail at [email protected] to tell me more about the personal reasons why (you stayed in enlisted). I think I have an idea, but just curious to hear it from your perspective. How many years have you been in anyway?