Are there any 100% DL nursing degrees???

I was in a hospital today and I heard on nurse talking about a 100% DL nursing degree. Another nurse said she was farmiliar with Excelsior of a BS in Nursing but not an RN.

Another nurse said an LPN can take online courses to get an RN but it required one week of clinicals in Atlanta.

Does anyone have any info about this??

 

HI Randell - Check out this link - not sure if they have what you need, but it is a pretty comprehensive list and you can search on online programs.

http://www.allnursingschools.com/

Mary A

 

Just as I thought, there is not a single online RN program.
Thanks-

 

Actually there are LPN to RN bridge programs available online that lead to an associate's degree in nursing (ADN), which is the entry level degree for registered nurses. There are also RN to BSN programs online so that ADN RNs can get their bachelor's, which is usually required for career advancement. However, there are no completely online programs for entry-level nursing at the LPN level and no "CNA to LPN", "EMT to LPN", "Medical Assistant to LPN" etc. In nursing the initial one-year diploma to qualify for the LPN licensing test must be earned through an accredited resident training school or though a teaching hospital's diploma program. Completely-online programs exist at the entry-level for certain allied health professions with clinicals completed at approved local facilities, but none for nursing.


Someone just recently asked this question here on this forum, for a daughter of a co-worker, about availability of online CNA or LPN programs, or CNA to LPN programs. As I recall, someone wisely advised that she should first get the LPN first at a resident school, then go from there.

Kit

 

I think that part of the difficulty here is that there's some confusion regarding definitions. As far as I know, an LPN and an RN are not really academic degrees, they're Nursing license statuses. You can go through a training program designed for you to take the licensing RN exam but you're not an RN unless and until you pass the exam. I don't know what you get to call yourself if you finish the program but don't pass the exam. In Social Work, the degree designation is MSW but an MSW isn't worth all that much unless you pass the licensing exam. Once you pass the exam you are an LCSW (in Connecticut) and that's what gets you a good job. As for the nursing degree question, there are "RN to BS" nursing degree programs that are 100% online. There's one here:
http:www.umassonline.net
Nurses or anyone else is welcome to correct my above statements if I'm in error.
Jack

 

I'm not a nurse (and don't play one on TV ) but do have two relatives and several offline friends who either are or were nurses, some LPNs and others RNs, so by virtue of their knowledge maybe I can answer some of your points.

Yes ....and no. They are licensing statuses but there are specific requirements that must be met in order to be able to sit for either licensing exam at all. A candidate for LPN licensing must successfully complete a one-year (sometimes 18 month) diploma program for eligibility to even take the licensing exam. LPN programs grant a diploma in practical nursing, sometimes called vocational nursing or LVN. By necessity these programs do include academic subjects relating to anatomy & physiology, pharmacology, disease process, etc., but don't include any general education requirements such as history or humanities courses. Graduates are eligible to take the PN (practical nursing) exam but are not able to sit for the RN (registered nursing) exam. Eligibility to take the RN exam requires an associate's degree in nursing. These associate degree programs include some of the same courses as the diploma LPN programs but more courses at higher level and depth coverage. They also require the same general education requirements as any other associate of science degree program, including the history and humanities courses.

The training programs you mention really only apply at the LPN/LVN level. There used to be three-year diploma programs for RNs, taught at teaching hospitals that combined classroom and clinical courses within the hospital itself. But these programs have largely been phased out in favor of the associate degree programs. Diploma programs for nurses are still taught at teaching hospitals but nearly all are at the LPN/LVN level rather than the longer RN programs. Most diploma RNs are already retired or near retirement age, and there's been talk in the past couple years of making a bachelor's degree in nursing (BSN) the entry-level requirement for eligibility to take the RN licensing exam. If that happens then LPN/LVN requirements would likely change as well, with an associate's degree as the minimum requirement.

There's currently a fair amount of resistance to these changes. This is partly because of the continuing nursing shortage, partly because of problems attracting and retaining nurses in the profession as it is, and partly because many BSN holders point out that associate degree graduates make fine RNs and that although the extra nursing theory, humanities, and administrative courses required for their bachelor's degrees did improve their advancement opportunities it did little to increase their actual direct patient care nursing skills. One BSN holder put it this way: "Medieval history and philosophical nursing theory courses are useless when you have 20 patients on your 12-hour shift, 6 need more pain medication, 4 have family members with questions, 1 demands to speak to his doctor "right now!", 1 demands a 'real nurse' rather than a CNA for bathing help, 2 continuously complain about room mates, 1 needs sleep medication, 2 need 'pinching' IVs or catheters adjusted, 1 is nearing death and needs company, 2 others are coding....and it's all happening at once!"

However some RNs want the requirement raised (particularly those who have already completed their BSNs), mostly because many are not happy that pay differences are pretty minimal between associate degree RNs and bachelor degree RNs when both groups stay in direct general patient care. BSN holders only see real increases in pay if they specialize (such as surgical or neonatal nursing), and will see the highest increases by going into administration which many don't want to do since they feel it removes them from the patient care that attracted them to nursing in the first place. Many hospital administrators also oppose these changes, partly because of staffing problems already and partly because if requirements are raised then nursing salary levels are also likely to be raised across the board. Certainly at least salary demands would rise, and if hospitals don't meet those higher demands then it could cause many more nurses to leave the profession. But the resistance won't last forever, some day soon nursing may be just another profession gripped by creeping credentialism.

They get to call themselves candidates to re-take the exam, hopefully with better luck next time. But in the meantime they can't practice nursing regardless of the level of their diploma or degree.

Kit

 

Heresy

Yes, I know it's heresy, but I would not wish to see an online ADN program. There are too many things that must be done under the supervision of a qualified instructor and/or nursing supervisor. One could only imagine how far the quality of care would go downhill.

Don't really have a problem with ADN to BSN because it is, primarily, more book learning.

There are a few occupations that need that face-to-face and in-seat time. Gee, I sound more like Steve Levicoff every day. The difference is that I think that it's a smaller group of occupations.




Tom Nixon

 

Re: Heresy

But again, ADN programs by distance education already exist.

Admission requires a valid and unrestricted LPN license, which of course is obtained by completing a career diploma program (usually one year) and then passing a written exam. But prospective students are not required to have any previous degree at all for admission, just the LPN license. Here's some links, found easily without barely trying so surely this is not a complete list:

LPN to RN (ADN) at National Park Community College in Arkansas:

http://www.npcc.edu/Academics/nursing_transition.htm


Miles Community College in Montana to implement distance LPN to RN:

http://www.milescc.edu/CampusServices/fipse/2003%20Annual%20Report.html


Washington Community College LPN to RN (ADN) by distance:

http://www.skagit.edu/news.asp_Q_pagenumber_E_721


LPN/LVN to RN (ADN) by distance at 3 community colleges in Michigan:

http://www.mccvlc.org/%7Estaff/LPN%20to%20RN.htm

Once completing any of the above LPN to RN distance programs, graduates become fully eligible to take the RN exam in their state. Once they have the RN they are not restricted to practice in that state only, as there are reciprocity agreements that recognize valid and unrestricted RN licenses from other states. Reciprocity is just a matter of paperwork and waiting, not additional training nor a requirement to take the new state's RN exam. If the new state does not participate in the old state's reciprocity agreement (such as in a different region of the country) then those holding RN licenses from the old state are offered the opportunity to immediately take the new state's RN exam without further coursework.


Also, apparently there is at least one ADN nursing degree offered by distance from Michigan that does not require an LPN license for admission, and of course also does not require any previous degree for admission either. It's currently limited to Michigan residents only, as clinicals are completed at approved Michigan hospitals supervised by approved on-site instructional supervising RNs. Here's that link:

http://www.nmc.edu/flo/programs/nursing/

None of this should affect quality of care to any significant level at all, certainly not making it "go downhill". Any practicing nurse will tell you that gaining a few years of real clinical experience (not school clinicals) after the formal schooling and licensing is the best teacher to insure quality care. Newbie nurses are closely supervised by experienced nurses, regardless of the the new nurse's level of education, how the education was obtained, what school the education came from, and regardless of the new nurse's level of licensure. There have even been instances where very experienced LPNs end up supervising new ADN RNs.

Too much about nursing simply can't be taught in any classroom, whether that classroom is butt-in-seat or by distance.


Kit

 

Fort Hays State

http://www.fhsu.edu/virtualcollege/bsn.shtml

"The RN to B.S.N. program is designed to meet your flexible schedule. With this program you can:

Receive credit for prior educational experience
Attend clinical courses in your local area
Finish in one year after prerequisites and general education courses are completed
Obtain special financing for computer loans"

 

Try Excelsior College (Regents)

I served in the Navy and at least half of the nurses I worked with, got their RN through Regents, now called excelsior. They are the largest or one of the largest in the country.

A buddy of mine also got his RN through regents. I remember him saying that he needed to do a few days of clinicals at a local college to demonstrate proficiency in certain areas of care.


Here's the nursing site:

https://www.excelsior.edu/portal/page?_pageid=57,53097&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

 

"I think that part of the difficulty here is that there's some confusion regarding definitions. As far as I know, an LPN and an RN are not really academic degrees..."


Jack,
You are right. This is confusing to many and not made any easier because nurses (including myself) do not adher to traditional rules regarding academic degree designation. The way I have noted my credentials at the bottom of my posts is not academically correct and not the way I would list my name in an academic publication. Traditionally, the highest level academic degree earned is listed first, right after the name. As only the MPH and the BSN are academic degrees, they are listed first with other designations tacked on at the end. It is more correctly noted:
Deborah L. Tormey, MPH, BSN, RN, CCRC

RN indicates I passed the RN exam and have a current license and the CCRC is a certification designation.

The various educational pathways leading to eligibility to sit for the RN exam and the changing priorities and practicalities that arise in life also affect how nurses list the designations.
For example, if the BSN were "entry level" for an RN it would not be of interest to anyone for a nurse to list the "BSN" designation. Currently, it communicates something specific within the nursing community so it continues to be used.

The "RN" can also be put first for purely practical reasons. At academic conferences name tags often carry only the highest academic designation which is defined as the first set of initials after the name on the application. If the "RN" were not noted first, it would be knocked out and, in that setting, the designation RN is important so many choose to keep it listed first to preserve that which is considered most important.

"MD", on the other hand, is an academic degree and is conferred at the time of graduation from medical school. It remains with the individuals no matter what their later activities - generally, a medical school graduate is expected to enter a 3-4 year residency to be eligible to sit for the certification exams that allow the doctor to practice medicine as we usually think of it. If they opt not to do this (say they realized they really don't want to practice as a medical doctor) they do not lose the "MD" designation.

 

Re: Re: Heresy

I am not aware of any ADN programs where students with no previous experience can become RNs. In your example, the student must already be an LPN. The much larger group of potential students would be those without the LPN license.




Tom Nixon

 

Deaconess offers an entry-level DL ADN program that presumes no prior healthcare experience, as opposed to Excelsior's ADN program (in which I am currently enrolled), which requires students to be an LVN or paramedic (or a few other certs which escape me at the moment.)

The Deaconess program (which is NLN accredited, and owned by a major hospital chain) does have clinical requirements, but the theory is all taught via DL. It also allows the student to get an LVN along the way.

 

To me this seems similar to the situation in Social Work where you rarely find someone who designates "MSW" because it's the license, the "LCSW" that conveys the more important information.
Jack

 

Re: Re: Heresy

Very true. So does Excelsior College <https://www.excelsior.edu/pls/portal/url/page/Excelsior_College/School_Of_Nursing>

Remember, even though the course work is distance learning, before becoming eligible to take the state nursing exam to be an RN, there are various "practical" exams where you must actually demonstrate in person that you can perform [appropriate nursing tasks]. This is done in the local area where you reside.

 

Re: Re: Re: Heresy

Right, but there was an option in the previous post for potential students who do not hold an LPN or any previous healthcare experience:

In a subsequent post by deej there was yet another example, this one is apparently open to students anywhere in the country:

Neither of the above distance programs requires any LPN license or any previous healthcare experience at all. Clinicals are required of course, they are simply completed at hospitals that are local to the distant student.

Programs like these are undoubtedly in response to the nursing shortage, as well as an on-site nursing faculty shortage. Probably another factor is that a lot of new nursing students are older, non-traditional career changers rather than fresh out of high school. Without non-traditional programs those potential nurses would find it very difficult, if not impossible, to attend nursing school.

Kit

 

There is an online program for non-nurses in the state of Texas, but it's currently limited to Texas residents:

http://www.eline.tamucc.edu/

One track leads to an ADN (Associate Degree in Nursing) from Del Mar College, and another track leads to a BSN (Bachelor of Science in Nursing) from Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi. Either degree qualifies you to sit for the RN licensure exam (NCLEX-RN). The didactic portion is completed entirely online, while the clinicals are arranged at a site local to the student. All of the prereqs are available online through various sources. My wife is almost done with the prereqs for the BSN track (mostly just Texas legislated general education requirements left), and will hopefully start next year.

 

Yes, Deaconess College of Nursing provides all nursing lecture online. Clinicals are done locally at a facility that agrees to enter into a contract with the school. It's actually a nice setup and I would imagine more and more schools will jumb on board with this delivery.

I am just finishing up my first year with Deaconess and so far so good. I will be traveling to Mo to participate in a "skills validation" to complete the practical nursing component of the program which then qualifies me to sit for the nclex-pn. If I should elect to continue on with the program I would qualify to sit for the nclex-rn next December.


mona

 

California College for Health Sciences offers a BSN and MSN completely online. The MSN program is accredited by the Distance Education and Training Counsel (DETC) and the BSN program is pending approval by DETC.

 

Accredited, unfortunately, by neither NLN nor CCNE, the two accrediting bodies for nursing programs.

Also, in this context it's important to distinguish between pre- and post-licensure programs. There are countless post-licensure DL BSN/MSN programs, but very few pre-licensure DL ADN/BSN programs.