Touro or Northcentral Education PhD

Both schools are fairly new and properly accreditted. But I'm leaning a bit more towards NCU because I think its education program is more expansive and has more variety.

 

Dave, I'm sure your doctoral studies and significant work in research methodologies, data validity, triangulation, reliability, etc., have taught you a thing or two about the tenuous nature of forming opinion based on chatter on an internet forum and second hand hearsay. That is one of the great benefits of training to be a researcher. it is so applicable to even the most mundane opinions we formulate.

 

Maybe things have changed but I was president of a not-for-profit corporation from 1984 to 1987 and had to pay fed and state income taxes on peripheral income (we sold beer and snacks to fund a sports program). We also had to pay sales tax. We rented US Army property for $1 per year so we had no prperty taxes.

 

Amusing 2nd grade teacher routine... you make it work though.

Dave

 

Mike:

I haven't been able to find any information about NCU's education degree. Do you have a link or information that you can share?

Ted N.

 

Re-accreditation is always a "hassle", and I believe it should be, otherwise standards erode. When Cal State Dominguez Hills was up for accreditation it was a big deal involving a lot of work. See http://www.csudh.edu/wasc/change/CHANGEROOT/WASC/index.htm

 

Re: Re: Re: Touro or Northcentral Education PhD

For the following universities at the Ph.D. level:

NCU charges $475 per semester credit. A typical course at NCU is 3 semester credits. On average, each course costs $1425.

TUI charges $500 per semester credit. A typical course at TUI is 4 semester credits. On average, each course costs $2000.

University of Nebraska-Lincoln charges $512 per credit hour for non-residents. A typical course at UNL is 3 credit hours. On average, each course costs $1536.

NCU is less expensive than both of the non-profit schools listed above. Let's hope they stay this way!

On another note; compare NCU's costs to that of other for-profit schools like Walden or Capella.

 

Ted,

My apologies. No, NCU doesn't offer education degrees. I got NCU mixed up with another school. Sorry about that.

 

Just thought I would chime in. The link below has the AM Arizona show with Dr. Hecht. In the interview he specifically states that Education degrees are coming soon. My recommendation would be to contact NCU and as for specifics.

http://www.ncu.edu/news/

Regards,

 

I've been told by NCU that they have received word that their education programs have been approved and are just waiting for the written approval. They will offer Ed.D. and Ph.D. in education.

Mary

 

thanks for the help!

Thanks everyone! You have been busy with the question. I wanted to assist those that had a few questions. I looked at Nebraska, and they only offer an EdD K-12 program. The PhD is for college administrators. While less expensive, I don’t have a feel for how they deliver their program. I’m not a novice; I received my masters form CSU Hayward online, with an online focus. I called and asked if I could take a course as a non-accepted student and they said there is one course available for K-12 doctorial students starting in January. One course a semester and I’ll be retired before I finished. To the question of tuition, NCU charges less per unit, but requires 51 units versus TUI’s 48, not to mention the books. NCU will offer an EdD in the near future, they just received the accreditation notice. Thank you for all the feedback and I look for more advice!

 

Hi Ian,

WASC does not seem to have any direct connection to NCU, but, If I recall correctly, NCASC has mandated that TUI (essentially a California-based operation) seek accreditation with WASC.

WASC has, historically, been the most resistant of the regional accreditors with regards to programs delivered completely at a distance. That seems to be changing, however. A fully online masters degree program that I helped to design was approved by WASC in a matter of months (a pretty reasonable amount of time).

Tony Pina
Northeastern Illinois University

 

Perhaps borderline corrupt was a little harsh. But WASC is certainly incompetent and living in the 1970’s when it comes to distance education.

 

Re: thanks for the help!

Good point on the program costs.

I stand corrected. Both programs are priced about the same.

NCU Assumptions:
1) $475 per credit hour
2) 51 credits required to graduate (minimum)
3) $100 for books per regular course
4) 9 regular courses required
5) $1,600 dissertation fee

($475 x 51) + ($100 x 9) + $1600 = $26725

TUI Assumptions:
1) $500 per credit hour
2) 48 credits regular coursework to graduate (minimum for the Education program)
3) $375 per credit hour (reduced rate) for dissertation study
4) Quote from TUI's web site: "the Ph.D. dissertation. (Student must enroll in DEL 700 level Dissertation continuation (eight semester credits each session at a reduced tuition rate of $375.00 per semester credit or $1,500 tuition per session) during the time of dissertation study."

($500 x 48) + ($375 x 8) = $27000

NCU's program is $275 less than TUI's. With such a small difference in price, go with the one that fits your needs the best.

 

Re: Re: thanks for the help!

Hi. Note that the TUI dissertation fee is per semester until the dissertation is complete.

Dave

 

non-profit

The only thing non-profit about TIU is in classification only. The Neumanns who run it are for profit all the way. The classification gives it a tax bonus. Go figure. If you think this non-profit status gives it some idealistic aura, you are very naive.

 

non-profit

The only thing non-profit about TIU is in classification only. The Neumanns who run it are for profit all the way. The classification gives it a tax bonus. Go figure. If you think this non-profit status gives it some idealistic aura, you are very naive.

 

Where did you get that from? WASC like its other five regional accredictors is signatory to the electronic education delivery methods (or something like that - paraphrasing here) document which is a standard any school wishing to deliver learning online has to meet to be accredited. In the document, there is no mention of residency or anything extraneous that I often read on this forum.

The truth is this, NCU, TUI or any other school is fine as long as it is accredited. A decision to attend a school rests with an individual. I just moved to a new job in July and the former deputy of my division at my new job is an NCU doctoral graduate who has since moved on to another great job. As long as a school is accredited, a degree from such school has unlimited utility. Those who think otherwise are entitled to their opinion but they should only speak for themselves.

WASC accreditation is no more difficult to obtain than Middle States or any other regional accredictors for that matter. To even push unnecessary button here, WASC does not accredit any ivy league institution. They accredit comparable institution but Middle States does. The point here is if any accrediting body needed to be selective it should not be WASC. This is just tangential to the discussion.

By the way, accreditation manual used by all regional accredictors says a school will be visited (again paraphrasing here) and accredited regardless of where it has its operations. The document is usually available at regional accredictors web sites including WASC for those who may wish to verify.

However, when a branch campus becomes too big, it must seek individual accreditation. TUI became too big and it must seek separate accreditation. TUI will never be de-accredited even in the unlikely event they encounter delay in getting WASC accreditation. It just never happens. Accreditation does not work that way. Even if TUI is accredited independently it could still remain a branch campus of Touro College. I got my bachelor degree from a branch campus university which was independently accredited. However, the law says it would remain a perpetual branch campus of its parent institution. Since it is a public institution, only the Louisiana legislature can change its status. The point here is it is possible for a school to be independently accredited and still remain a branch campus. That decision remains with Touro College President Lander and TUI and TUC leadership. If only those making comments unnecessarily take their time to read some of the accreditation requirements, many of the statements they make will not be made.

oko.

 

i]Originally posted by oko [/i]


Where did you get that from?

Oh, just from wokring with WASC accredited agencies for 11 years and from colleagues at institutions accredited by the other five regional agencies.

WASC like its other five regional accredictors, is signatory to the electronic education delivery methods (or something like that - paraphrasing here) document which is a standard any school wishing to deliver learning online has to meet to be accredited. In the document, there is no mention of residency or anything extraneous that I often read on this forum.

The document to which you refer was actually authored by the Western Interstate Cooperative for Higher Education (WICHE). It addresses quality standards for evaluating "electronically delivered" degree programs. Although the document was adopted by the six regional agencies, it does not obligate WASC or any of the other regionals to be equally accepting of distance learning programs. WICHE and WASC are different agencies.

The truth is this, NCU, TUI or any other school is fine as long as it is accredited. A decision to attend a school rests with an individual. I just moved to a new job in July and the former deputy of my division at my new job is an NCU doctoral graduate who has since moved on to another great job. As long as a school is accredited, a degree from such school has unlimited utility. Those who think otherwise are entitled to their opinion but they should only speak for themselves.

I agree with you that regional accreditation establishes a minimum standard for legitimacy and transfer of credits between institutions. However, to claim that accreditation creates "unlimited utility" is, unfortunately, not accurate. Evidence for this is that Neither NCU nor TUI has proven to provide "unlimited utility" for those seeking tenure-track faculty positions at universities. Perhaps this will change in the future, as these programs become more established. Accreditation is only one piece of the pie.

WASC accreditation is no more difficult to obtain than Middle States or any other regional accredictors for that matter.

When it comes to the accreditation of complete distance learning degrees or virtual universities, your statement is inaccurate. How many virtual programs are accredited by North Central Association versus Western Association? I designed an online masters degree program that was recently approved by WASC, so I know whereof I speak.

To even push unnecessary button here, WASC does not accredit any ivy league institution. They accredit comparable institution but Middle States does. The point here is if any accrediting body needed to be selective it should not be WASC. This is just tangential to the discussion.

The term "ivy league" has geographical ramifications, so you are correct that WASC does not accredit any institutions in the eastern United States. However, it does accredit Cal Tech, Stanford, UCLA and UC Berkeley, institutions that are, as you stated, "comparable". WASC is not necessarily more selective or rigorous than other accrediting bodies; however, it has historically been less accepting of distance learning programs than other accreditors. That appears to be changing.

By the way, accreditation manual used by all regional accredictors says a school will be visited (again paraphrasing here) and accredited regardless of where it has its operations. The document is usually available at regional accredictors web sites including WASC for those who may wish to verify.

OK

However, when a branch campus becomes too big, it must seek individual accreditation. TUI became too big and it must seek separate accreditation. TUI will never be de-accredited even in the unlikely event they encounter delay in getting WASC accreditation. It just never happens. Accreditation does not work that way. Even if TUI is accredited independently it could still remain a branch campus of Touro College.

Branch campuses that are within the same general region do not necessarily have to seek individual accreditation (however, they can if they wish). TUI's situation is unique in that it offers programs (namely doctoral degrees) that are not offered by the accredited main campus on the other side of the country. I agree that it is highly unlikely that Touro University International will become de-accredited if there is a delay in WASC accreditation.

Tony Pina
Northeastern Illinois University

 

Thank you as always for your sensible contributions to this forum. You and I are not too far apart. Obviously you know more than I do as an academia. However, having been in the real world of employment for the past 15 years with no god fatherism and no "ivy league degrees" (no regrets here) but now work shoulder to shoulder with the ivy’s and similar and basically make same money, I am at a more advantage point to speak to this issue than many in this forum. The fact that I am an immigrant who came here in a not too distant past makes it even more special that I dispel some of the broad statements made here sometimes. The bottom line is any accredited university diploma is all you need. The ability to get a job depends on the demands of the work place and the professional degree(s) one hold. If market demands it no one cares how and where you got it. Again, I have too many examples to believe otherwise.


Have a great day.

oko