Doctor with student loan debt, hitting close to 1 million...

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by AsianStew, Aug 17, 2022.

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  1. AsianStew

    AsianStew Moderator Staff Member

    Wow, this is probably the most I've seen a student loan go up to, that's going to hit 1 million in a matter of years before she even retires, since she's only 55 this year. My goodness, hopefully something does come out of the "limiting interest on loans". We'll know more details on what Biden decides soon...

    As I mentioned, I really think people who are able to pay the interest, do so, if not, only the borrowed amount should be paid. They really need to pass something (no, not passing gas), but a bill that works and agreeable by everyone. Government, you need to step up and get this rolling! I trust the education system, but changes need to be made.

    Link: Meet a doctor with $895,000 in student debt whose balance has surged on an income-based repayment plan: 'It's just wildly out of control now' (yahoo.com)
     
    MaceWindu likes this.
  2. Garp

    Garp Well-Known Member

    She is a doctor of podiatric medicine. They are legitimate and have hospital privileges (do surgery and so on). She makes 5 figures. Borrowed too much and deferments cost her.

    They note an attorney with 347 grand in loans and not making much. There is a glut of lawyers and a simple Google search will show many legal grads complaining about issues finding a job and pay (unless you graduate from good law schools and are in upper portions of your class).

    Chiropractors are also in this category. Their education is private and costs are around MD level but with very low starting salaries. Google is your friend.

    Read an article with similar issues for grads of Vet schools (especially those very expensive Caribbean Vet schools). Lots of competition and low pay.

    People need to think carefully and research before borrowing with wild abandon and then hoping the Student Loan fairy (tax payers) will eat their debt.
     
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    This commentary on interest almost reads like an ad. for the Islamic financial system. Since adopting that, I have neither collected nor paid interest. It's worked VERY well for me - but I owe no money AT ALL and if I borrowed, I could hardly expect student loan companies in this part of the world to support my adopted principles. Perhaps one day... Inshallah. (If G*d wills it.) :)

    What I really really really don't like about her situation, is Dr. Kathleen's forgiveness date being pushed back years by inter-company loan transfers. That stinks TERRIBLY. Only thing worse than usury is legalized usury. A sad commentary on business 'sharp practice' on this side of the world.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Not that all kinds of 'sharp practice' don't cause miseryt everywhere in the world. You can't fight human nature (and win) it seems.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
  5. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Active Member

    One wonders why the good doctor doesn't get a job at a more lucrative practice. In any event, I'm sure the bleeding hearts will come up with a way to direct tax dollars to cover her irresponsible financial decisions as they did here. Don't get me wrong, I think the federal student loan system is worthwhile, but this is unreasonable.
     
  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I wander what happens if Dr declares bankruptcy?

    I never filed those chapters and have no experience with it.
     
  7. Garp

    Garp Well-Known Member

    Zip recruiter says the average is $63,000 a year for Doctors of Podiatric Medicine. Some make good livings but it is probably like Chiropractic in that longevity and skill building a practice is important.

    Again, people need to research before they borrow money and then they need to live with the consequences of the decisions they made. It is not the taxpayers responsibility to live with poor decisions.
     
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    If that info is correct, (and why wouldn't it be?) the rule of thumb says no more than $63,000 should be spent on the relevant education. Is that even possible, here?

    In fact, the rule is "no more than your anticipated income the first year of employment, after graduation." This $63 K was not a first-year thing - I assume it's an average derived from all levels of experience. That makes the rule all that more difficult to follow. Is it even possible at all, for this occupation? Or is it the same conundrum as law school, these days - in that the price of school no longer relates to anticipated earnings? In other words, insufficient ROI in most cases.
     
  10. Garp

    Garp Well-Known Member

    From what I quickly read in several articles it logically depends on how long you been practicing and where you are practicing. Some of the figures I saw in the '50s OR $60,000 are probably starting podiatrists. They have a lot of upward potential. But again you have to factor in poorly paid residencies where your loans are coming due and the income curve as you start out and build a practice. Those that have surgical specialties obviously also make more money according to an article.

    "According to 2020 BLS data, the lowest 10% of podiatrists had an annual salary below $55,230, while the top 10% made more than $208,000."

    https://physiciansthrive.com/physician-compensation/podiatrist-salary/#:~:text=According to 2020 BLS data,10% made more than $208,000.
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'd imagine a lot of those in the lowest category would be starting out. And if the rule-of-thumb for school cost is 'no more than your anticipated first year income' - then that makes entry even less financially practical. I'd venture it's probably impossible to get the required education for $55K. Maybe $55K after healthy scholarships etc. But no more out of your pocket (or in loans) says the rule. Tough rule.
     
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Maybe we can all cobble together a prize (max. $75) for the first person to hit $1 million in student-loans-gone-bad. Shouldn't be long... Maybe a calculator that can do interest and a nice leather checkbook-cover. That should be around the price range, no? :)
     
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    As an aside, I'm surprised more people in situations like this don't give up and emigrate.
     
  14. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Active Member

    Zip Recruiter's salary estimates often miss the mark. Attached is a snippet from the Bureau of Labor Statistics for Doctors of Podiatric Medicine. Most make around $150-200k. Although, I'd imagine, were one a really good podiatrist, that number is a starting point.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Garp

    Garp Well-Known Member

    From what I quickly read in several articles it logically depends on how long you been practicing and where you are practicing. Some of the figures I saw in the '50s OR $60,000 are probably starting podiatrists. They have a lot of upward potential. But again you have to factor in poorly paid residencies where your loans are coming due and the income curve as you start out and build a practice. Those that have surgical specialties obviously also make more money according to an article.

    "According to 2020 BLS data, the lowest 10% of podiatrists had an annual salary below $55,230, while the top 10% made more than $208,000."

    https://physiciansthrive.com/physician-compensation/podiatrist-salary/#:~:text=According to 2020 BLS data,10% made more than $208,000.
     
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    At least some do. Some even go to the other end of the world to escape as little as $20K. I've read stories. And some seem to be born screwups. They mess up here and don't do at all well abroad. Some come back home again, where they have the advantage of knowing how to milk a system. Where they'd been sojourning, there might not have been be a milkable system.
     
  17. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't suggest anyone abandon their student loan or any other financial obligation. It's unethical and downright dishonest. You are obligated to repay YOUR debt. Those who do leave will end up with bad credit. Unfortunately, there is no debtors' jail, so there isn't anything much you can really do to someone who is delinquent, save for maybe the opportunities you won't get from being delinquent on your debts.
     
  18. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I had no idea DPMs made so little at the beginning unless it's a resident's stipend they're talking about?
     
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately? Chris, we moved past debtors' prisons more than a hundred years ago. With good reason. I was a debt collector for years - so I often wished they were still around - but I knew down inside they have no part in a modern world - any more than beheading, burning at the stake or hanging people for stealing sheep. I'm told that my adoptive great-grandmother saw the last man (publicly) hanged in England for that crime. In the 19th Century no less than THREE of my male ancestors, including my Great-Great Grandfather, were luckier. Instead of being hanged, for stealing a couple of donkeys, they were transported to Australia - two of them for ten years, and my Great-Great Grandfather for 15. His DNA is probably the reason I'm just as bad a rascal as he was. :)

    Those days are gone, fortunately - but as a former debt collector I can tell you - there's still lots you can do. You can call them, and to some extent make their lives a bit more miserable if they don't fork up to the best of their ability. You can sue. I did lots of that. Once you have a judgment, you can attach most forms of income, wages, money on deposit, money owed to self-employed people by customers ...quite a list. You can bring the debtor before a judge, to be examined under oath - and the judge will make an order for payment, as he deems fit. You can file liens against property, to prevent sale without payment of your debt. In certain instances - at least around here - you may find it desirable to force sale of a debtor's property, under a court writ. It's costly and you'd better be sure enough equity is there to pay your claim, after mortgage debts etc. get settled. If your debtor is a landlord, you can have the court direct rent to be paid to court, to satisfy your debt. Bin there. Done that.

    Yes -you can do a few things, depending on where you live. Not always a fun job. But when you've finally nailed some real S.O.B. -- yeah, you can smile. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  20. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Yes, you're right. Thanks for reminding me about things such as wage garnishment and so on. Heck, if you're a permanent resident applying for naturalization and you owe Uncle Sam, it won't be good. So, yes, there are a few options to "compel" people to pay up lol
     

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