Another Win for DEAC

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by freddyboy, Mar 26, 2022.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'm sure they would. But since they can't access those loans - they don't seek it. ...I guess.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I don't think you're overlooking anything. And I didn't mean that I EVER see DEAC accreditation of medical schools as likely. And nor do I want to. Not their bag. Just commenting that even if that were to happen, WES would not change their opinions of NA degrees one bit. Besides, DEAC is (largely, anyway) confined to what its name suggests - DISTANCE schools - or primarily so at least. Training a doctor by distance? The whole nine yards? I don't think legit medical schools are there, yet. Gonna be a while, if ever. So - another reason why Med. schools are not DEAC's demographic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It's only U.S.-based school that need to be institutionally accredited by a NACIQI-approved accreditor to participate in Title IV. Foreign schools don't need to be.

    For example, American citizens and permanent residents can use federal financial aid at the following medical schools in the West Indies:
    • American University of Antigua
    • American University of the Caribbean
    • Medical University of the Americas
    • Ross University School of Medicine
    • St George’s University School of Medicine
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Steve. I had no idea. Today I learned. Still don't think Med schools are DEAC's demographic, though, for reasons stated. To me, accrediting such schools looks like a highly specialized job - demands a lot of professional resources, I'm pretty sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think those Caribbean schools usually rely on accreditation in their area. IIRC the standard is CARICOM - or have they recently changed name?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Well, CARICOM did set up a regional body for accreditation of medical schools called CAAM-HP, but I don't think it's a factor on the financial aid side of things.

    I gather that a license to operate from the country's government is the basic criterion, but that the school then has to do something else directly with the US Department of Education. Not sure what the process is, though.
     
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  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks. Good to know. CAAM-HP was the acronym I couldn't remember. Good to learn they're two separate orgs. "DI State" has been a pretty good school for me today. Kudos to all the Profs! :)
     
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  7. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    What are your thoughts on online medical schools such as International University of Health Sciences, or Oceania University of Medicine?
     
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Don't know enough to have any intelligent opinion. Not a med-school buff - they'll never admit me at 79! :) I had my FIRST glance at IUHS 2 minutes ago. 250 clinical sites plus their campus. All clinical rotations seem to be in place - so obviously not "fully online." I'd disregard it entirely if it WAS. All this for only $20K(!) a year, AND they say grad doctors are practising in US and Canada.
    How do they do it? Why can't everyone else?

    My question - if everything is so good - and the cost is SO LOW - why do they even need ads? They should be full for the next hundred years! There's something here I'm not seeing. That's because I'm a complete layman. Maybe you could tell me.

    BTW - I see they deal in a lot of "bridge-programs." Various health occupations-to-MD. I like that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
  9. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    From the research I've gathered, they get many applicants (not as many as the top foreign med schools however), but few students ever make it to the end. Since the first 2 years (basic sciences) are handled entirely online, and because it is difficult, some opponents point to the online format as lacking in the interaction necessary to complete that part of the program with greater success rates.

    There was or still is a serious situation brewing for 2023 regarding recognition in the United States with regard to that particular school and with med schools that teach all or part of the non-clinical phase entirely online. I need to look into what's going on with it. Last I checked in early 2021, it didn't look good. It appears that the College of Medicine and Health Sciences - St. Lucia is gonezo, and I'm really curious about what happened as they had an intake lined up for January of this year and I wonder if the matter I mentioned had anything to do with it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks. For me - an enlightening read.
     
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  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Here next to the Edge of Texas (Lithium City aka El Paso) we have a total U.S. population of a little more than a million. (There's another million in Cd. Juarez as far as anyone can tell but they don't count for this post.) So...there's not a single law school! Just as well, I suppose, the world really doesn't need another law school after all but look...we have TWO medical schools! One's osteopathic, true, but still. That one is here in Las Cruces. The other is Texas Tech in El Paso. So is an M.D. or D.O. going to go the way of the (so-called) J.D. as another hideously expensive professional degree of which there will be far too many awarded for the market to absorb?
     
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Who can tell, based on that info alone? We have NO idea where those graduating doctors are intending / going to practice. Certainly not all next door to their Texas or New Mexico Med school - or even in those States. Due to exorbitant cost and reputed difficulty of Med. school - I can't see the same glut as new lawyers represent. It should be darn hard to become a doctor - and I think it is. That should keep the numbers somewhat in line. Not all people who enter those schools will come out as doctors. And I'm also sure the US has some under-served areas. Give new doctors incentives to work there. We do with Northern Canada. Oh - I forgot, your Gov't doesn't pay the doctors.... the people and private insurers do. Sorry.

    And as for D.O.s -I'd never even think of going to one. Possibly because my mother DID. M.D.s have kept me alive a couple of times, now. They got me through serious crap - cancer and open-heart surgery. I'm good now and I've long been suspicious of other kinds of "doctors." I think D.O.s are more popular in the US than here - and their market is WAY bigger there. Wouldn't know if it's over-saturated or not..
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  13. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    My brother is a D.O. and is often referred to as the best ER Physician in our area. Several of my friends and family members are D.O. physicians and from what I hear, people love them. Now, another friend of mine went to medical school at Dartmouth and is an OB/GYN...people love her too. Here in the United States, DO and MD differences are minimal...they all do the same thing.
     
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Wait, are you suggesting it would it be a good thing to have fewer physicians?

    There are underserved areas, but the US does have programs like that. That was the basis for the TV show Northern Exposure.

    I share your suspicion. For me, evidence-based is the way to go. But as JoshD said, DO holders are real physicians in the US, although I've heard that's not the case elsewhere.
     
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  15. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    DOs are practically the same thing as MDs. Separately, outside the U.S. osteopathic training doesn't include the full scope of medicine, so osteopaths thusly trained are not physicians. I can't speak to the law everywhere, but in Canada for instance, U.S.-trained DOs become physicians in the same residencies, regulatory bodies, and work environments as MDs.
     
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  16. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Oh no, our government pays physicians. Absolutely. Medicare and (indirectly) Medicaid and Marketplace subsidies are gigantic sources of revenue for the medical establishment. Thje U.S. does have a certain level of socialized medicine. We just don't like to admit it.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    No - just commenting that there are built-in filters (difficulty etc.) that I feel will keep the numbers from rising to the 'glut' level as Nosborne48 was wondering.

    Thanks - never saw it. One of the things I missed by low-exposure to TV. (None, now.) I'll risk it. I learn things here - thanks for this one.

    Certainly, they aren't real physicians in my headspace. But that shouldn't worry them and I don't suppose it does.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
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  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Of course you don't like to admit it. You don't like to admit, either, that every developed country in the world is committed to universal health care — except the United States.
     
  19. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    Without this thread getting derailed, can you explain to me how a D.O. is not a real physician? My brother did 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school, and 3 years of residency with a MIX of D.O. and M.D. folks. He is given the exact same freedoms as every other D.O. and M.D. I know D.O. physicians that are neurosurgeons, neurologist, cardiologist, invasive cardiologist, orthopedic surgeons. I am not sure what more you need for them to be a "real" doctor.
     
  20. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Johann, are you certain about whether your mother saw an osteopathic physician (Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine, DO; these receive first professional training at AOA COCA accredited DO schools in the U.S. and nowhere else on earth), as opposed to a nonphysician ('lay') osteopath?
     

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