Republicans still believe Trump's election loss was the result of a rigged election

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Bill Huffman, Apr 12, 2021.

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  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Another case of Trump's lawyers being in trouble with the court for pushing his Big Lie. The federal judge in Michigan stated the following in her ruling.

    "The attorneys who filed the instant lawsuit abused the well-established rules applicable to the litigation process by proffering claims not backed by law; proffering claims not backed by evidence (but instead, speculation, conjecture, and unwarranted suspicion); proffering factual allegations and claims without engaging in the required prefiling inquiry; and dragging out these proceedings even after they acknowledged that it was too late to attain the relief sought," Parker, an Obama appointee, wrote.

    "And this case was never about fraud—it was about undermining the People’s faith in our democracy and debasing the judicial process to do so," she continued.
    https://thehill.com/regulation/569465-judge-orders-sanctions-against-sidney-powell-lin-wood-in-michigan-election

    It has fooled over 50% of Republicans into believing the Big Lie.

    The Trump lawyers will have to pay the lawyer fees for the side fighting their frivolous lawsuits in Michigan. They have also been reported to the BAR for potential additional sanctions.
     
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Yes, I read it here.
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-orders-pro-trump-attorneys-042235580.html

    I'm one of those who believed them.
    I believed they had the prove after such a strong claims and confidence etc, turnout they didn't deliver.
     
  3. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    BTW, Yahoo News is rated High for accuracy. They have a clean fact check record.

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/yahoo-news/

    A High rating is very good. The only media source I've ever seen with a Very High rating is the Associated Press
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Also, since they view bias and accuracy as different, there are a few outlets that are center-left (e.g., NPR, Brookings) and center-right (CRFB) that get the Very High score for accuracy.
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the fun search option!

    I actually think that for regular consumers of the news like ourselves media rated Mostly Factual or better is pretty good. The Mixed accuracy rating is getting into iffy BS like rants from the right and left by political pundits on Fox, MSNBC, or CNN. Where there is no chance for editors to do fact checking like on printed material.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Mike Lindell, The Knower of All Such Things, now says Donald Trump will be reinstated by the end of the year.

    On another note, Matt Gaetz, in a rally speech a few days ago, called for taking back the House and appointing Mr Trump as Speaker. (There is nothing that says the Speaker must be a member of the House.)

    Or we could talk about degrees and stuff.
     
  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Trump as Speaker of the House would likely doom the chance of any new laws passing. It would give Trump a new megaphone to use so he would probably like that. I don't think Kevin McCarthy would like that idea though. If Trump was made Speaker and at the end of the year he was reinstated as President then maybe he could do both jobs at once? No, that would cut down on the number of people he could blame when things go wrong. Trump wouldn't like that.
     
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It's better than a lot of what's out there, but I'd still prefer High to merely Mostly Factual.
     
  10. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    New poll is out. Republicans are still not connected with reality on this thread topic. Trump's Big Lie is winning! This is obviously the result of Republicans getting their news from poor accuracy media sources like Fox News or worse.

    quote:
    Among Republicans, 78% say that Biden did not win and 54% believe there is solid evidence of that, despite the fact that no such evidence exists.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/15/politics/cnn-poll-most-americans-democracy-under-attack/index.html
     
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Maybe partially because the left media bias drove republican supporters/voters away to alternate news.

    And not all alternate news sources are
    inaccurate.

    I think AP, WSJ, Reuters etc are an OK news sources that can be uses to compare stories.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I'm sure that the left lean of ABC, NBC and CBS had a big impact like you say. Unfortunately too few Republican's get their news from the more accurate media sources that you list. Instead they get their news from Fox News and therefore believe false things like Biden did not win the 2020 election.
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Americans might possibly be starting to pay attention to the Big Lie and its potential damage to democracy.

    It's idiotic to believe elections are rigged when there is absolutely no evidence to support it. But the people promoting that lie don't actually believe it. They're just manipulating the poor suckers who do.
     
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Maybe its a tactic to combat cultural subversion?
    I'm speculating here.

     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    He lost me as soon as he falsely equated erasing history with removing statutes of slavers from places of public honor.
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    That is a clip of ancient cultural subversion from 30 or 40 years ago. An example of modern day cultural subversion is Vladimir Putin stating that the insurrectionist arrested after January 6 are political prisoners that broke no laws.
     
  17. Any time there's an issue, there are people who will try to take advantage of it for personal gain or other issues (Sidney Powell comes to mind :( ). To dial back to the basics, the Harvard Election Integrity Project (Dr. Norris) back in 2014 reported that US election integrity is ranked 57th. That's pretty bad.

    Most people, however reluctantly, admit there is financial hacking, infrastructure hacking, ransomware, etc. going on in the world.
    If you seriously think foreign and domestic actors are not at least exploring election hacking (here and elsewhere) then you might wish to reboot your thinking.
     
  18. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    This does not mean that USA elections are so untrustworthy as it would seem to imply with your statement. For example, turnout in our elections are bad because of oppressive voter restrictions in many jurisdictions. So there is a lot more going on.

    quote:
    But one difficulty that comes with comparing U.S. elections to other countries – even other democracies – is the unique nature of election administration in the nation, experts say. One notable difference is the level of decentralization in the U.S., says Holly Ann Garnett, an assistant professor at the Royal Military College of Canada.

    "Essentially there are 50 different elections going on on the same day," says Garnett, who is also a contributor to the Electoral Integrity Project. "In some cases even, if counties are running their elections differently within a state, then you can have hundreds of elections going on, each of them with their own set of rules and procedures. And that is quite notable about the American context."
    ...
    There are other differences in the U.S. that "might seem quite odd" to some places, Garnett says. She notes the lack of generalized allowance of same-day voter registration, which is the norm in a lot of countries. She even says that the size of American ballots – indicative of the amount of contests happening during each election – "would seem very weird," at least to Canadians who are used to short and simple ballots.

    Turnout is also a notable factor, says Michael McDonald, a political science professor at the University of Florida who runs the United States Elections Project. He notes that Switzerland is the only other liberal democracy with turnout rates as low as the United States.


    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2020-10-07/us-elections-compare-poorly-to-other-democracies-research-shows
     
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Yes, stoked by one side. Just one.

    When Trump supporters stormed the Capitol Building in an effort to prevent the democratic election of the next president, 70% of Republicans polled felt the election was stolen from Trump. That number is now 78%.

    This is after months of debunking fraud claims, and with ZERO evidence that any such thing occurred.

    Let's stipulate that there are many gullible Americans who can be convinced to accept a lie as being true. (After all, this is the central premise of the advertising industry.) Where are the Republican leaders on this issue? Either silent on the sidelines or actively pushing this idea on their constituents. Again, all without even a shred of evidence.
     
    Bill Huffman likes this.

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