Grupo Tarraco Formacion or oh no, not another Master Propio stuff

Hi @Mac Juli

Thanks for sharing this Master Propio stuff from marketcursos place. Hopefully this doesn't turn into a thread about master propio's validity etc. By reading the other threads I fully understand what it is and what it is not. Googling revealed that ISAE Universidad is accredited in Panama via CONEAUPA. Universidad Católica de Cuyo is likewise accredited as well in Mexico. Ditto about Universidad CLEA, not sure if the accreditation is on the program or the institution.

I've been reading their FAQ at https://marketcursos.com/agencia-universitaria-doctrinas-qualitas/ trying to wrap my head around it, using a translator of course since I no habla espanol. Hopefully somebody who can comprehend Spanish can shed some light.

The document that one receives upon completion is a "certificate" like the one you shared, I posted one below for easy viewing. So it's not exactly a degree or diploma issued by a University. But in the FAQ it says

And in the master program page it says

So does this mean that you can actually request for an actual diploma, issued by one of the 3 universities? And by the way do they give you the transcript as well? I am very keen to take up one of the masters offered as it is a topic of interest. And if I can actually get a diploma issued by a real university, it would be worth my while. That's assuming its a MC exam, since I won't be able to write a project paper as I'll need to rely on Google translate to navigate the questions.

 

The whole thing with Eudes never seemed good to me. They're not accredited and they're not being certified by any single accredited university but seem to have a deal with the AUDQ. The AUDQ is acting legitimately themselves, but three Universities attached to one degree is something that just seems weird. Just seems easier to stick with a propio that is certified by a single school with no middleman involved.

Sorry for the frustration :-(

 

From what I can see, Universidad Catolica de Cuyo is in Argentina is not in Mexico, it is in Argentina. I am not sure about CLEA but it looks like the university is from Mexico and expanded to other countries in Latin America.

 

It is common in Latin America and Spain to have double degree programs or award the degree between multiple universities. I already mentioned UNAPEC in the Dominican Republic offering a Masters In Project Management with UQO | Université du Québec en Outaouais. Based on what I see, the Universidad Católica de Cuyo is legit and has several campuses in Argentina and the address checks out with Google Maps.

PS: There are programs in the United States like this Ph.D. in Technology Management that is provided by five universities simultaneously. So, having multiple universities should not be a problem.

 

I'm aware of that being true but only to an extent. I'm aware of situations in Spanish-speaking nations where one school awards a degree and a certifying school awards one of their own with it carrying its own ID and the ID of the partner school like the ENEB arrangement with UI1, we've all discussed that to death over the past year+, but in this equation we're discussing we have: Market Cursos, AU, DQ, Eudes Universitas, Universidad CLEA, ISAE Universidad, and Universidad Católica de Cuyo, with all three accredited universities billed on the same diploma. This isn't something I've ever seen before. Do you have any other Spanish/Latin examples that match that level of connection?

I don't know if evaluators will see it that way, but even if they do I would expect some suspicion from employers. This isn't common in the United States and there will have to be some serious 'splainin. Of course collaborations are not unheard of, but that's not the same thing as having a degree with as many entities written onto it as the example in this thread. Maybe by chance the diploma of the BGSU program you linked does have all five schools written on it, but we'd need to see one of the diplomas to be sure of that. Even then, that would be an exception to have 5 different entities written on your diploma when weighed against the majority of programs in the United States.

 

Universidad de Burgos, Universidad de León, and Universidad de Valladolid have an official Masters degree in Business Intelligence and Big Data. You can register at any of the universities for this "interuniversitario" and the title will be the same:

"¿Tiene alguna implicación matricularse en una u otra Universidad?
Ninguna. Independientemente de donde te matricules, tendrás los mismos derechos y disponibilidad de recursos. El título final también es el mismo."

 

Hello!


Well, I did not have any problems with Eudes Universitas. Regarding the "Master" I did - it was at "Mare Nostrum Business School" - I can say that I did not have any problems with the language. I speak Spanish at level A1, but I am a native French speaker; so, this was enough to score well on the MC tests.


Best regards,
Mac Juli

 

I'm a native French and Dutch speaker. But there is still a difference between Canadian French and Spanish though haha.
But my passive understanding of Spanish is good and I had two years of Spanish in high-school, so I'm also able to write in Spanish with a dictionary next to me.
I wrote my thesis about human rights in Spanish.

I still hope they will grade it.
I was so proud of my work and then that stupid portal that didn't allow me to upload the thesis.
I spoke to higher management about it and they promised to look into a solution.

Still mad at that professor though.
What could it bother her if I send it through email instead of via the portal, if the portal doesn't work?
She was overtly principal.

Fingers crossed for a graded work soon.

 

Things to take into account in my opinion:

Titulo propio means own title. It is valued on the reputation of the university that give it or endorse it.

The term master in Spain is not legally protected. Can be anything in duration, that is why the hours or ETC appear on the certificate of diploma.

Protected degree titles are master universidad or master oficial. Actually bachelor's are 4 years studies called Grados or grados universitarios. In the past could be licenciaturas ,which could also be master level degree since they lasted 4 to 6 years( example of 6 could be medicine), and you had the diplomados universitarios or enginierias tecnicas that were 3 years bachelor's (no general education, usually all concentration credits).

 

The title of Master is not protected in the United States either. We have Master certificates here. In the same way with ECTS credits, we determine the difference in credential levels based on the credit amounts. For U.S. purposes, we've learned that a Master's program of less than 60 ECTS is pretty much guaranteed to not get evaluated as a Master's degree or anything equivalent. Most foreign sources I've read start Master's degree equivalency at 60 ECTS.

 

Can you give an example?

 

Those micromasters from EdEx I would presume.

 

The Masters of Business Administration specializing in Metaphysics from University of Sedona (MBA.M) as a legal religious-exempt degree is one as well as their Masters of Metaphysics degrees. Also, WES evaluation of ENEB/U1 as a non-accredited Masters degree basically suggests that while this is a degree that is not official in its country and is not part of the standard higher education system there in matriculation to a doctorate, we will not give it a regional accreditation equivalent but the title and rigor of the program itself suggests a Masters equivalent. Thus this degree is appropriate as a Masters title and can be used for professional purposes. It should still be used with caution and limitations.

 

Yep.

Programs like that seem to use the term the most. Here is one example: https://www.simplilearn.com/big-data-and-analytics/senior-data-scientist-masters-program-training?referrer=home

Here is another one from Canada: https://www.uregina.ca/business/levene/programs/mcert/index.html

 

I will widen my previous comment to make it more clear.
By protected titles I mean a title that is defined in the laws of the country giving the owner certain privileges and can only be given under certain conditions and institutions and anybody using the name of the title/degree out of this conditions is breaching the law. Usually this implies 1) sanctioned institutions which have followed and accreditation process and have been sanctioned by the country authorities are the only ones allowed to give this degree/title and 2) the content of the of the studies is regulated and have specific conditions.

In concrete in Spain the "Titulo Propio" as indicated previously rest its value in the granting institution. For example a titulo propio of a university implies that the university has check the content, the person that studies and decides that fulfills a criteria thus granting the degree under the university frame. This one have value, but give you not a Spanish State right to a protected title as is a certification of knowledge under the university. What does not have is the state saying that check the program each two years, check the teachers (education CV etc) and the process of granting that follows XXXX rules and YYYY procedures as happens in the master oficial or master universitario were the granting institution is the Spanish State across the figure or representation of King of the country and a state or for you federal number on each degree to check its authenticity ( requirements example each teacher in the university that has a fixed position or above have a PhD, the professors have a minimum of X certificated years of teaching in a university environment in the country and at least 1 year teaching internationally, have a minimum number of research done each year and is reflected in this number of articles indexed ere or there, etc). In the titulos propios of an institution that is private, a business, the value lies in the institution itself. For example Apple give you a title of studying how its technology work. This will be a titulo propio under the value that people perceive of Apple and its capacities of making a process of certification for their products.... now imagine that the same company makes a certificate of how to produce apples(the fruit) in a ecological agricultural environment based on their knowledge and experience of the matter. To which of the two certifications you will give more value and to which less. Well the state of Spain created a category "titulo propio" that frames the capacity of the institutions to give a paper under their criteria, which the state does not supervise, saying you did something and to this something we give it a name to separated from the regulated one. If the institution is a University which the Spanish state has supervised, you know that this paper comes from a institution that is regulated and follow a set of stipulated rules but if it comes from ForumsOfTheInterned signed by OrignailPosterXXX you have to decide which value you want to give to it.
Why titulos propios are a think, because they can adapt and do not need years long (literally)process to get a certification from the state which cost a lot of effort and money. It also allows that the people teaching it as department chairs do not need to have the accredited rank of Catedrático (in german will be Privat Docent that requires further study after a PhD, which changes to Professor when they win a department chair position) which is quite a lot more than just a PhD and involves as I said years of teaching at a university, research and several accrediting process. This way you can put industry leaders to give you a class or people with only a PhD. Add to that the fact that most of the doctorate level titles that are not a PhD or involve research in Europe are seen as Master level studies example Juris Doctor or MD (but in some countries the PhD for medicine is also Medical Doctor which makes it more convoluted but needs research work and a thesis...better lets not go this way).

As for the comparison of the US. The easy way to know if the title/degree is protected by law is to make yourself this question: If I give this degree to somebody I will be committing and illegal act? Will I be charged with a felony? Will the feds come after me?
For the person using the title: If I use this piece of paper that says degree XXXX or the title associate to it can I be arrested and prosecuted because I'm breaching the law?

As far as I know anybody can print a title of Master Degree in USA. What make it valuable is that the degree is backed by an accreditation which at the same time the agency granting the accreditation is backed by the government (even then are different perception and acceptance of the levels of backing), but the fact of printing the degree is not in itself illegal. In Spain to give a degree that says Master Oficial in XXXX is only permitted to a number of regulated and controlled institutions that are supervised by the government to a minimum standards, so the regulatory role is done directly by the state and enforced by the judicial system and law enforcement.

For last as a fun fact, a titulo propio of an university is recognized in most government jobs, but as additional education not minimum capacity. This comes with a caveat, usually education that goes further than the minimum regulated to make the job and is measured in the number of hours of study or ETC. That is why you will see masters of 60 credits ( equivalent to 30 American credits and minimum to a master degree) which tries to ensure the education at the same level than the others but also exist the option to have masters with less hours or credits because they are more narrow focused. Understand the masters name as a specialization of the subject but not as a degree with a minimum set of hours.

I hope to have contributed with my understanding of the subject to dissipate at least some of your questions if not at least let me thank you for reading an having interest in the educational systems of other countries.

 

I woke up and notice that I received an email from EudesUniversitas. They have finally decided to grade my project. Grade received: 90 out of 100.
The diploma is super ugly though.
I need to wait 7 to 10 days to receive the diploma validated for 3 universities (CLEA, ISAE and Cuyo).

But the one from Eudes itself is ugly AF!

 

Honestly, it looks like a standard diploma I've seen from schools in Spain. That actually looks like one of the better ones.

 

I was bracing myself but I agree with LearningAddict, that one looks similar to many others I've seen: https://www.google.com/search?q=titulo+propio+diploma&sxsrf=ALeKk033raGegOwVkvoqrdfd0YUFnsOqHA:1626094603447&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVgda5yt3xAhVExZ4KHVLTBEEQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&cshid=1626094611821922&biw=1536&bih=722

They tend to be rather "busy" with lots of text.

 

I did further reading on Eudes website, apparently you can request them to get a university diploma issued.
https://www.eudesuniversitas.es/#titulos-internacionales

So the "certificate" attached by Mac Juli isn't the only one you can get. You can actually request them to issue a university degree from 1 of the universities in that cert. @Mac Juli mind giving it a try?