Bye-bye Bibi?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Mar 24, 2021.

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  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Bye-bye Bibi! Enough people were tired of broken promises and personal betrayal that they finally got together and DID something about it. Note that the haredi parties are out for the first time in a long time. There's a chance to break their grip on personal status and daily life of Israelis. Few tears will be shed outside Jerusalem.
     
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    In 60 vs 59 votes the new Israeli Gov was sworn.
    Naftali Bennett is the PM of the 32nd gov of Israel.
    60/59 vote shows that there will be many survival challenges.
    Bibi is in opposition now.
    Tel Aviv is celebrating as they tend to vote centrist parties.
    Israel is without a budget for long time so the first actions of newly formed gov will be to pass a national budget.
    A interesting possibly contributing fact is that Bennett is an observant modern Orthodox.
    In his speech today he proclaimed to work on a whole city just for Orthodox.
    Not an area or neighborhood but whole city.

    How should modern democratic state of Israel with all the minorities etc should be is still a challenge.
    Many views.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Bennett, who was an American citizen by the way until he renounced to enter Israeli elective office, is Modern Orthodox. So is Sen. Joe Liberman. Modern Orthodoxy has not fared well in the Jewish world. It looks too much like what American Conservative Judaism wants to be and they aren't doing very well either.

    The point I'm making is that UJT and SHAS consider Bennett to be indistinguishable from Reform. There is NO common ground between them. That's why the haredi rabbis have been shouting such vicious things at him and his followers. And if the haredi rabbis fear the loss of privilege and power in Bennett's Israel, they're dead right. What you are hearing is well founded fear.
     
  4. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I didn't know much about Bennett.
    So thanks for additional info and insight.
    While NB is not relying on ultra orthodox, will he go out of his way to change their mind? Obviously whit in the framework of current coalition.
    Indeed Haredi community has low tolerance to other groups including Chabad.
    But this is just one of issues and challengers NB will face.
     
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Oh, no. Absolutely not. Indeed, one member party of the coalition has stated that the haredi parties are not welcome to join. I doubt Bennett would actually discourage their support in the Knesset but he won't go wooing them either.

    Breaking the Rabbinate's control over the lives of secular Israelis is a major motivation of large blocs of Israeli voters. The level of resentment and anger has been rising over the last ten years or so.
     
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    There's a lot to like about Bennett but he is no Liberal. He is a religious Zionist meaning he opposes a two state solution and favors aiding the settlements. He also favors a common core secular education for ALL Israeli children and a voucher system for state supported yeshiva students. Both things will compel the ultra Orthodox to engage with the modern world and that's Bennett's expressed goal. Such engagement threatens the power of the haredi rabbis over their people (and voters) by ensuring that everyone has the tools to survive outside of the haredi world. In a sense, Bennett is treating the haredi world as a cult. I don't think that's quite fair but I'm not an Israeli.
     
  7. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Thinking about it...Bennett is a Sabra. He was an officer in the IDF. He's a serious Israeli politican. But he's so AMERICAN. In a way, the rabbis are right. He IS Reform though he would deny that himself. What I mean is this. Bennett identifies himself as Modern Orthodox. The very idea of a Jew "identifying " himself as anything is a very American way to think. It’s that Bennett decided for himself what kind of Jew he wants to be and how he wants to practice his Judaism. That notion of individual choice is quintessentially American Reform.
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    You could use the same argument to support the idea that ALL American Jews are Reform even the Satmar chasidim because all must choose one way or another.
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I think we will see that Bennett wants Israelis to choose for themselves.
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The vote to install the Bennet-Lapid government wasn't as close as the 60-59 vote would indicate. Two Arab MKs waited to see whether the new government would survive the no confidence vote before casting their own, largely symbolic, votes against it. Had it looked like there were 61 votes against the new government, these two say they would have abstained in order to assure the new government taking office. Interesting. It means that Bennett-Lapid have more margin for error than I thought they had.
     
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    In my view Modern orthodox are still Orthodox just they don't follow the traditions of wearing the "uniform" , it minimized to a yarmulke for guys.
    But unlike the US reform or conservative Judaism the Modern Orthodox still very Ordodox when it comes to observance and ritual.
    They combine the usual secular ways so to say to work life occupations, friendships and activities.
    One can participate in sports but till not brake the Sabbath, etc.
    Or work on Sabbaths and holidays. The children may attend public schools and mix with secular children, including attending university etc.
    They know how to bridge between different groups.

    A first challenge of the new PM and government is the Jerusalem Flag march that traditionally performed on May 10th.
    This time its on Tue June 15th.
    Hamas is threatening to sent rockets etc.

    Chief of Staff Aviv Kochavi said tonight (Monday) that the army is preparing for the possibility of resuming fighting in the Palestinian arena in the background of a march with flags to be held tomorrow. "The situation in the Palestinian arena is explosive and we are preparing for the possibility of resuming fighting. "As far as the IDF is concerned, what was is not what will be," he said.
     
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    As with everything else Jewish, whether "Modern Orthodox" really IS Orthodox depends on whom you ask and why you want to know. The Israeli rabbinate will not recognize a divorce granted or a conversion performed by a Modern Orthodox bet din nor will they allow Israeli businesses to claim to be kosher based upon a heksher from a Modern Orthodox rabbi. In fact, an American convert who wishes to make aliyah will find the process somewhat easier if he converted under Reform or Conservative auspices than American Orthodox because the Israeli rabbinate (somehow) passes on Orthodox conversions but not Reform or Conservative. I don't really understand why this should be so but it is. My point, though, wasn't whether Modern Orthodox are "Orthodox". Rather, I'm pointing out that Bennett, like all non-haredi Jews, decided for himself what he was and what his observance would look like. That notion is completely foreign to the haredim but fundamental to Reform.
     
  13. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I'll go a little further here and say that Orthodoxy or non-Orthodoxy is a similar and related question to "Who is a Jew?" Again, and even more emphatically, the answer depends on whom you ask and why you want to know. Don't assume, by the way, that the Reform authorities accept all so-called Orthodox Jews as Jewish. They don't. Nor does the Israeli Supreme Court view all halachic Jews as Jewish for the Law of Return though an Orthodox bet din might declare otherwise. There is no universally accepted definition.
     
  14. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Bibi won't leave the official residence of the Prime Minister for "several weeks at least"! C’mon Bennett! Pry the poseur out of there pronto!
     
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    As opposed to the U.S., where military chiefs released an unprecedented joint statement making it clear that they'd clear Trump out of the White House at 12:01pm if he was still there.
     
  16. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Israel has no Whitehouse like institution.
    But it has a residence for the PM.
    There is also residence of President.
    So Bibi requirement to vacate PM residence/compound is not resembling vacating WH.
    In the past some PMs received grace period of up to two months to vacate the compound.
    I bet Bibi will take his time.
    But according Israeli law even if Bennett government falls Bennet will remain an active PM just like Bibi was so far until next elections and formation of next government.
     
  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Wrong. Balfour IS the PM's official residence and the Israeli taxpayer foots the bills for the place. Bibi needs to leave NOW.:mad:

    Of course, why do I care? I'm not an Israeli.o_O
     
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Why wrong? I didn't deny that its an official residence of Israeli PM. I replied to Steve's note about US military chiefs etc.
    I stated that its not equal to WH so there is no need for such a statement that military did in comparing to Trump vacating WH.

    And as mentioned before some Israeli PM's in the past were given time to vacate of up to several months.
    First of all, there is no official protocol for the handover of power in Israel, including on procedural matters like vacating the official residence.
    Maybe some day the attorney general or another top official will formalize relevant instructions once and for all?

    So who is paying the Netanyahu family’s bills while it continues to reside on Balfour Street?
    Israelis ask is someone even supervising the matter during this transition time?
    Bibi has left the Prime Minister’s Office without a director general for three years, despite repeated calls by the state comptroller to fill that vacancy.
    A legal adviser at the Prime Minister’s Office has already recommended that the state stop covering Netanyahu and his family’s utility costs at the residence.
     
  19. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Occupying Balfour Street is symbolic. Bibi needs to go.
     
  20. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Ford gave Nixon several weeks to leave the White House after his resignation. But Ford made that call, not Nixon.
     

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