Integrity of 2020 elections.

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Lerner, Nov 28, 2020.

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  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Two points,

    First, if anyone should be insulted by my post, IMHO, it should be Steve. My post was saying that he (our beloved moderator) was being unfair to Rich. The purpose of my post was not to attack or even belittle you but instead to point out to Steve that if you'd misunderstood the WP article or incorrectly characterized the article then he was being unfair to Rich.

    Second, your post contains little that could possibly change my mind or my conclusion as to what is most likely. If you want specific things that Trump has done that may be in criminal violation of the Hatch Act then I guess I can give you some although I don't know how this directly might apply since I didn't read the article myself. It would be a criminal violation of the Hatch Act, for example, for the President to force an employee in the executive branch to violate the Hatch Act. Trump on multiple occasions has had partisan political activities like the Republican convention at the White House. It is possible that federal employees had to perform some tasks while on the job to prepare for, perhaps to help run, or perhaps to clean up after the multiple partisan political events that Trump has had on federal property. If so then Trump would likely have committed a criminal violation of the Hatch Act. Also, the office with the responsibility to monitor this stuff, OSC, has found that a large number of Trump's senior staff has violated the Hatch Act and Trump has refused to discipline them. Which seems to demonstrate his disdain for the system in place to monitor for violations of the Hatch Act and the Hatch Act itself.
     
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    If you're referring to Biden getting more votes than those other folks, then it is obvious that Biden got such a huge number of people voting for him because Trump's approval rating has always been mediocre. There are just a lot of people that don't approve of Trump. The second term election of an incumbent President is always a referendum on that President. Trump's approval rating was NEVER above 50% for his whole term! Nothing magical, tricky or sinister about it. Trump had a poor approval rating. Just to be clear, 50% is equal to half and more people disapproved of Trump than approved of Trump. So he lost the election, this is how democracy works, at least how it worked in 2020, although not in 2016.
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Not at all. I still think the passage SpoonyNix highlighted is deliberately manipulative, since it was the seemingly gratuitous inclusion of speculation from someone who wasn't involved, but it's okay that our views differ.
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I do feel bad and apologize to everyone for not mentioning in my initial post that I was unable to actually read the article. It would have better set the context for my opinion. That was an oversight on my part.
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    He out-performed everyone in history. It appears to be a function of his opponent.
     
  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    While there is an element of what you are saying, there is still a possibility of large scale fraud, efforts to prove it are still taking place.
    Actually some on the right think that slowly they are making progress in finding evidence and courageous patriot Americans people who will examine it.

    If it was clean election then indeed the 80 mil is unprecedented #.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No, there isn't. More than 40 failed lawsuits have proven that.
    It was. Even the Trump administration states that. This makes your statements on the subject disingenuous.
     
  9. SpoonyNix

    SpoonyNix Active Member

    I honestly appreciated your response and wasn't expecting depth. I buy that the bias doesn't bother you, but not that you do not see what's going on. Not saying you are lying, I just haven't decided how to interpret it.
     
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Bias is present in every human endeavor. Even "objective" multiple-choice tests are really subjective and biased. It matters more (a) if the bias is material and (b) what we do with it.
     
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  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Six pages of discussion on a non-existent "fraud".

    Shall we open up treads on Birtherism, Pizzagate, QAnon, and the Yeti?
     
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    We have 6 mentions of Pizzagate already - 3 by you, Stanislav.
    We have 57 mentions of QAnon - which had its own thread. Lerner and Bill Huffman, in large measure
    We have 9 mentions of Birtherism - again, 3 by Stanislav.

    I'm all for the Yeti. It would be a nice change. Or, preferably, Qanun, which is a nice musical instrument from the Arabic world. I've long wanted to play one - but they're quite expensive. Arab music is complex and intellectually challenging - but full of feeling and expression. Its influence shows up in Flamenco.
    (Fehlemengu = village singer, in Arabic, so I'm told.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
    SpoonyNix and Bill Huffman like this.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Good Qanun music on YouTube. You can look it up. Better than this tired thread, anyway. Johann out...
     
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I believe it also shows up in the guitar playing of Habib Koité, from Mali - who, I think lives mostly in France these days. He's also on YouTube. Try his "Ika Barra" (Your Work) and you'll see what I mean. Fabulous musician.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Same! Those who like them should check out Escape from Kathmandu by Kim Stanley Robinson, since one of the characters is one. Pretty funny book overall.
     
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Yeti is also the second studio album by German rock band Amon Düül II.

    This Yeti music is from the time when all kind of substances assisted in altering the mood of the musicians and it can be experienced in the music.
    Not that I'm saying the musicians used these substances as a fact.
    Now how is this for a song title
    "Halluzination Guillotine" or "Yeti Talks to Yogi"
    "She Came Through the Chimney" this is more like Baba Yaga. (Baba Yaga is a project collaboration between Hungarian rock musicians and a Russian folk-singer)

    YETI
    upload_2020-12-7_14-37-6.jpeg
     
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  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Baba Yaga is also the name of a legendary witch among Ukrainians. I know of instances of Ukrainian parents using threats and stories of Baba Yaga to scare their kids into desired behavior. That was a l-o-n-g time ago, though. Maybe now they play the CD?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  19. SpoonyNix

    SpoonyNix Active Member

    According to the likely-to-be-validated-by-Leviathan totals I'm seeing:

    Trump garnered the second highest popular vote total in history.
    In terms of electoral college results, Biden is currently projected at +74, and a popular vote spread of 4.4%.
    Trump beat Clinton in 2016 by +77.
    Obama beat Romney in 2012 by +126.
    Obama beat McCain in 2008 by +182.
    Reagan beat Mondale by +512, with a popular vote spread of 18.2%!
    Before that there were some enormous spreads as well.

    I certainly don't see Biden as having "outperformed" Obama, B. Clinton, Bush1, or Reagan. Total numbers in terms of pop & electoral votes are hardly anomolous.
     
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I'm one of these kids, be it Baba Yaga, or Babai, Leshiy etc, etc.
    I used it to pass to my kids as well.
    I think this one is still alive in 2020.

    Baba Yaga: Terror Of The Dark Forest (2020) - Official Trailer (HD)


    upload_2020-12-7_15-8-40.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020

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