Tea leaves?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Aug 24, 2020.

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  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I had not intended to post here any further due to my impression that the election was cast in polymer resin. Seems I was mistaken about that, and likely mistaken about absolutely EVERYTHING ELSE I've posted here since I started the thread. Fivethirtyeight shows President Trump in a death spiral that I certainly didn't anticipate. Mr. Trump's chances of winning in the Electoral College, say they, have fallen to about 16%.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/

    Well, all I can say is that my record of success in predicting the wrong winner might remain unbroken.
     
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, You are bashing a US General based on your left disinformation. The typical liberal-left double standard. As to me wanting to join Navy Air-force reserve whats wrong with that?
    Its shows your state of mind is twisted. It was in response to your claims that I will always be a foreigner, I never felt that way.
    Stanislav - Liberalism is a mental disorder. So left political agenda is insane.
    Dr. Lyle Rossiter, a board-certified clinical psychologist wrote a book in which he diagnosed the ideology of the left as a tangible mental illness. Something for you to read.
    The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness, which claims to trace the psychological factors causing people to become liberals.

    As to statues, I think its case by case, same for buildings and parks.

    Talking about Lenin's statues reminded me of the following what was done to Lenin's statue in Odessa.
    A statue of Lenin in Odessa, Ukraine, was “decommunized” by order of the president.
    Lenin was transformed into Darth Vader, who also works as a free WIFI hot spo.
    Alexander Milov is the sculptor in charge of this decommunization project Who better represents the Dark Side?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    He's literally telling me I have anxiety about this and just don't know it. He can feel as strongly about his position as he likes, but that's just desperate.
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Me either, which is why I said "most". Remember that my four kids range in age from 15 to 23 and we actually talk about things, so I'm not just going by some YouTube video of a kid praising Ben Shapiro, or whatever.

    Sure, there are always outliers, although I'd suggest in this case they're better characterized as garde arrière.
     
  5. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I love history. I don't read much though because most history books are more focused on the leaders. Sure I've read those but I more enjoy the stories about the people. How they lived. What their lives were liked. So your post really struck a cord with me.
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I note that in my post that you responded to I stated,

    "I did a Google search looking for "American Liberals Supporting Pro-Diversity Cultural Deconstruction" and came up empty. Lerner, did you perchance see that on social media and get sucked in by Vladimir Putin's cohorts that are spewing lies?"

    Your failure to respond would seem to speak volumes. I assume it can now be safely concluded that you did get suckered into believing a totally fake made up post on social media. Please be more careful about spreading the silly false nonsense that you grasp onto to support your yearning to demonize the Democratic party and a large portion of our beloved country. I suggest that any similar stuff you post should best be posted with a link to the source or your credibility will be damaged further.

    P.S. The next time you question using CNN as a valid source keep in mind that CNN is far superior to social media.
     
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    You mean Conrad Black? He us not a US general. He is a former Canadian media baron, who has a British peerage - and is also an ex-con, pardoned by Trump. C'mon, he's a minor celebrity, his biography is well-known - especially at home in Canada.
    There's nothing wrong with joining Navy Reserve. It just won't give you any credit among your fellow magaheads - as seen from example of a combat vet Vyndman.
    Case by case - are you kidding me? Duckworth only said "we need to have a conversation", and it was enough for Carson to label her a traitor. And unlike her, you are not a double amputee Iraq veteran Senator, and you ARE in fact from a sh1th0le country. Just saying that you are practically Taliban communist.
    Good job keeping tradition of labeling dissidents "crazy". Very 1970ies Soviet Union thing to say, tovarisch.
     
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Maybe you - personally - don't have anxieties, Steve. Lots of Americans do, I think. Insurance costs a boatload, and is riddled with exclusions and deductibles. Even if you don't worry, many Americans worry about what they might have to do in a finacial sense if they got sick. And if they do get sick - they have worries about recovery AND financial woes. The amount of medical debt in America is staggering. I posted some figures a while back. One rational, well-educated DI poster was conjecturing a while ago in a thread about what he'd do if he got really sick, long-term ... he figured he might spend the maximum deductible ($10K /yr!) for a few years, if it would keep him going. Thinking about effect of his sickness on his family. Nice fella. Wish he didn't have to worry for even an instant about that.

    In Canada - chances are he wouldn't have to spend one penny. If you knew any sickness in your family was going to be treated free - and you paid no premiums, wouldn't that means something to you? (And yes - I know we pay for it in our taxes. BTW - what do you get for YOUR taxes?)

    Some Americans move here primarily for the health care. They tell us so. Welcome to Canada - all of them. But not Bernie. He just wants to come, buy up all our medicines and go home. Hands off!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And Steve --- forget about anxieties. When I said Stanislav was right - I agreed that, as he said, you don't know what you're missing. And I still believe that. Nothing wrong with that - you've never had it so how can you know what it's like? I think it's a matter of pride that Americans deride the idea. Frontier self-reliance, 1776 and all that 18th 19th Century stuff. Maybe it's just misplaced machismo - I usually hear it from guys.
     
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I often wonder why certain necessities are competed for in the marketplace. Healthcare, education, energy, water, housing, food, basic income. Why can't we provide these basics to everyone, then leave it to people to decide to purchase more if they want and/or need (and can)? We are willing to let people go homeless, go without medical care, go without food and water if they cannot afford them. Yes, we do have some social welfare programs, but I've always been mystified why we're okay with people going without the very basics for life.

    With automation taking so many jobs away (about 85% of job loss is due to automation), we might have to really re-think what it means to contribute to society and to draw from it. I'm not convinced that can be limited to the employment/work paradigm anymore. I think the future will be one without the capacity to employ everyone, despite the fact that we will, as a society, continue to generate massive levels of wealth. Who will get to participate in it?

    Henry Ford paid his workers much more than the prevailing wage. He wanted them to be able to purchase the automobiles they were building. Walmart underpays its workers so badly that a huge number of them participate in food assistance programs--spending that assistance at...wait for it...Walmart. (Walmart is also the largest recipient of such spending across the nation.)

    Are we going to continue to step over our hungry and homeless as we stride down the sidewalk?
     
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    No, I mean general Michael Thomas Flynn is a retired United States Army lieutenant general.
    Strzok's notes indicate that Biden mentioned the Logan Act and the whole thing was intrapment.
    No point in our arguing. I know all sides are represented in these axchanges for people to read.
     
  12. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    How do you define our hungry, who is ours, and who is not our hungry?
    In some states, the little welfare goes significantly to the undocumented migrants, and healthcare also goes to the undocumented. Education is free as well.
    Should we just legalize everyone who wants to come here, and crosses the birder?

    Indeed automation is taking jobs away, for example, solar panel operated parking attendants, I remember my roommate used to work as a parking attendant on evenings and weekends.
    Robots are taking our jobs that's for sure. ZAs to water, we pay taxes, someone has to maintain the infrastructure, pipes, pumps, chemistry etc, etc.
     
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Pretty simple - your hungry are those who are simply without food. They're right there - and they have a life/death problem. And for all - not the time to ask for papers. Eat first.
    You're evading the question and restricting the subject to your fear-induced mania about undocumented people - again. I think Rich was asking about everyone who needs assistance. But you keep referring to your favorite bogeyman - the undocumented.
    Water is a necessity of life. Do you actually mean you'd deny it to anyone temporarily / permanently unable to pay towards it? That's inhuman. I'm not going to stay here to teach you or your mentor Trump on how to be a human being. For goodness sakes, learn to blow another horn, Lerner. . Have you any idea how bad this one is?
     
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think there are two reasons, Rich. Lack of willingness - as ably demonstrated by Lerner - and lack of government money to go around. Yoir country and mine - and most others, the Government's credit card is pretty well maxed out keeping things as they are. It's constantly in danger of not working in the machine. The kind of money you're talking - it's unfortunate - but it's not there, at least in Government coffers.

    Maybe they could and should do a couple of those things e.g. healthcare, but the whole nine yards? There will likely never be public resources for that. What you envision would be utopian - but it'd have to be a concerted, co-operative private effort. Whose? Suggest maybe you start by talk to someone like Bill Gates - not the Koch Brothers or Walmart, that's for sure.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    No one is evading the question.
    You can open your house and host as many migrants as you want. So can Nancy Pelosi, there are so many homeless just outside her beautiful house.
    Are you for open borders let all come to Canada?
    I have no buggy man as you call it.
    Of course, I will not deny help, and of course, I will not be checking people's papers.
    But in immigration policy, the leadership is tasked with protecting its citizens from harm and you know well that with this comes the responsibility to protect your communities.
    The US has been generous and in comparison to many countries when it came to immigration. Canada has a good record as well.
    Ask the Americans in some blue states that are struggling with healthcare education and all the systems including welfare that is overrun.

    Wed, October 7, 2020, 3:39 AM EDT
    Donald Trump signed an executive order on H-1B visas in April
    The US government has announced it will tighten the requirements for the popular H-1B visa.

    These visas are widely used by tech firms and visa recipients are mostly Indian and Chinese.

    The temporary visas are intended to allow US companies to use foreign workers to fill skills gaps.

    But the Trump administration says the visa has been abused, often at the expense of American workers.

    100% correct - there was no skill gap for decades.

    This is a responsible approach to protect jobs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    You build walls and separate children from their parents. We don't. Your country's refugee admission has gone down the porelain convenience - even before Trump. Here's the data:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/10/07/key-facts-about-refugees-to-the-u-s/

    Let's take one case: Syrian refugees - 2015-2019. America - 21,616. Canada 63,938. Our country has 1/10 the population of US hence much smaller economy and financial resources - yet we took THREE TIMES as many Syrian refugees as our GIANT neighbour. "Give me your tired, your poor - your huddled masses etc. BAH!

    And no - I'm not for letting everyone come. Where did I say that? But if they come - whether by plane or through a field in Manitoba - they're going to be treated humanely and we'll endeavor to sort out who's who and get them a refugee hearing as soon as possible. We'll make sure they don't starve or freeze in the meantime. Either way - we find out they're undesirables - back they go. (At least, that's what's supposed to happen.)

    Data here. Don't compare us again.

    Canada - Google enquiry:

    63,938 Syrian refugees
    Between April 4 , 2015, and April 30, 2019, 63,938 Syrian refugees were admitted to Canada, according to Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.Oct 7, 2019

    US -see below

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/742553/syrian-refugee-arrivals-us/
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    No? I think you may have a few. Undocumented are only one.
     
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    It all depends on how one measures and which time ranges one applies. Immigration is cyclical. The US is a nation founded on Immigrants.
    Helping refugees is brave and shows heart. Brave because is not without dangers and problems. Any policy has to take into account the well being and safety of its citizens.
     
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Why not say feed the hungry, Why the word our hungry is used?
    I think if you say feed the hungry its all-inclusive, once you say our than a question is asked who is our vs, not ours. That was my question.
    I never supported the children's separation or family separation. But it happened, we all seen photos from the 2014 Obama and Biden era of children in cages.
    You also confuse the responsibility and commitment to community safety.
    Actually I'm very sensitive to refugees, many of my family got their legal status and became US citizens because the USA recognized them as refugees.

    Johann,
    Lebanon Christians allowed Palestinian refugees who were fleeing Jordan for their lives to
    settle in Lebanon. Problems started immediately. Each camp harassed each other and it ended with massacres. As Lebanese tell, initially, it was quiet, but as the Palestinians grew in numbers, Palestinians were first to put roadblocks and harassing Christian villages.
    It evolved to massacres and wars.
    I'm not saying all refugees are dangerous, only some can be. Time will show.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Seattle businesses rocked by protests, pandemic, and crime
    City officials respond to the surge in violence by cutting police force;
     

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