Tea leaves?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Aug 24, 2020.

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  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Legalizing all drugs would probably be a bridge too far for me. For example, I might see a reasonable law to decriminalize heroin use but having very strong controls with a focus on medical treatment instead. I don't think it is at all likely though.

    Still waiting for Trump to launch his October surprise! The goal being to smear Biden somehow with an arrest or criminal investigation announcement or graft or something.
     
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Oh good, because Trump spent all this time bolstering public trust in criminal investigations and federal law enforcement. Not.

    I feel like they tried that angle with Burisma. Used some fairly visible pro-Russian politicians for this, too. Did not stick, perhaps in part because of the impeachment.
     
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I haven't lived that long, let alone here - but can it be said that Carter was more dangerous than Trump? Which of the two hired an international political mercenary in 7-figure debt to one of the most notorious Russian mobster-tycoons as the campaign Chairman?
     
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    ...arguably, was started in order to erode civil liberties. Fair points.
     
  5. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    They did try that exact angle. He will try something. Trump doesn't like the current polls. It's only going to get worse with Cohen's book and Woodward's books coming out. He'll need some kind of game changer. Cohen said that he will try to win at all costs, I believe him.
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Yes, but only by insane people.
     
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    To be honest, I'd trade Trump for Carter right now, even at 95 years old.
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Well, I loathed Carter when I voted for him in 1976 and I still loath him no less today. Was he really dangerous? I don't really know.
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Apparently the country thought so, too, since we elected a cardboard messiah to replace Carter in a landslide.
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I did vote for Carter both times, though.
     
  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    in 1972 I voted for Nixon and, given the same choice today, I'd do so again.
     
  12. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I get it that the late '70s were a really bad time economically, but given what a strong word that is, what in particular grinds your gears about him?
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I kinda wondered that, too. I was in the military during the Carter years. It was tough on us--little respect, pay raises that didn't keep up with inflation, a hollowed-out (post-Vietnam) feeling everywhere. So I had a real first-hand opportunity to "loathe" him. But I didn't. I felt Carter was a really good guy who tried to do well. But he was dealt a pretty bad hand, both in terms of the economy and our presence on the world stage. Anyone remember runaway inflation under Ford? I do, with his "WIN" ("Whip Inflation Now") badges.

    But Carter wasn't corrupt, his administration was reasonably clean (with a few real exceptions), and he never initiated a military conflict with anyone. I think Carter got a bad rap because of the Iranian hostage crisis (including the botched rescue), coupled with the horrible conditions he inherited. Remember, he had to clean up after Nixon (because Ford couldn't), and that alone meant he wouldn't be able to fully work his own agenda.

    Finally, I think Carter gets a bad rap because of the successes of Ronald Reagan. (Just as I think Reagan's successes are way exaggerated and his failures and corruption conveniently forgotten.) But Reagan sure returned America to feeling pride again, something I believe both LBJ (with Vietnam) and Nixon (with trying to destroy our democracy) caused and Carter just couldn't fix in time.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Rich, our views align here. But at 46, I'm also probably biased in that most of my living memory of him is after his time in office, and I don't think the U.S. has ever had a better ex-president.
     
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  15. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I didn't like (Carter) him at first because he seemed to my young mind as syrupy and too "sincere". As he went on, his endless refusal to see terrorists as terrorists grated on my nerves until his utter failure to do anything effective in response to an overt act of war by the revolutionary government in Iran infuriated me. I was on active duty in the Navy at the time. Ultimately, the Reagan Administration made an illegal and dangerous deal that had the long-term effect of solidifying that brutal regime in power and served as notice to other Mideast terrorists that the U.S. was fair game. Carter seemed to me to engage in weasel behavior because he was a moral coward. It is quite possible that my assessment is unfair. But there's no "fair" in voting or politics. As it is, I shall shed no tears at his death, whenever heaven should see fit to claim him.
     
  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Not a challenge, just a question: What would you have had him do in that circumstance?
     
    Rich Douglas likes this.
  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Frankly, I'd have responded at once with overwhelming force. Again, the man might have been right in what he did but we're not talking about "fair"; we're talking about the depth of contempt I feel for him as President and as a private individual since he left office. He is still too much of a terrorist hugger to suit me.
     
  18. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Then you understand how I feel about Trump and his Putin love fest.
    Seriously, how is Carter uncommonly bad and Trump isn't?
     
  19. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I never said Trump wasn't uncommonly bad. I haven't expressed any opinion of the President either way. I can't. The rules don't permit me to publicly endorse any candidate for elective office. No, the difference between Mr Carter and Mr Trump is that Carter totally lost the support of his base. Trump hasn't, that's all.
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    He has been terrific in his long life after the presidency.
     

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