Masters Propio (ENEB, etc)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 4, 2020.

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  1. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    You seem pretty upset there, but you mentioned fraudulent degrees, I simply responded to you having mentioned it, and I articulated the problem with bringing them up in a non-fraudulent situation. I'm not saying anything outrageous here.

    With regard to your issue with them, we're just going to remain diametrically opposed on that view. I'm just never going to have a problem with a legit program. I don't think a person should have to pay a lot of money for it in order to gain the benefits from it.
     
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    The degrees we're discussing are acceptable in their own country with some limitations, no different from some legitimate U.S. degrees...
     
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    No. You yourself stated the difference. They're acceptable in their own country with limitations. That does NOT make them acceptable in any way in the US -- until/unless a recognized evaluator says so. Limitations? So far, those are for Spain to decide. American authorities will decide here, not us.
     
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  4. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Um...I think you all are talking past each other? There are two related but separate issues here.

    First, there is the more-or-less objective question of legitimacy. Legitimacy is perhaps more than mere legality but less than recognized accreditation. A J.D. from a Bar qualifying California correspondence program may lack any accreditation but it can produce a perfectly legitimate lawyer. Somewhat lower down on the "doubtful" spectrum might have been degrees from a state licensed school in a state whose standards were nearly non-existent. Legal, yes, but perhaps not representing the level and quality of academic work that the degree title implies. (Am I the only one who misses those long acrimonious debates about KWU?)

    The second issue is much more subjective. How will a potential employer, be it academic, public or private, view the degree? That's the concern I have about "degrees with explanations." The very need for an explanation might get one's resume tossed in the "shred" bin without even an interview.

    Now, one can argue until the cows come home by taxi about whether an employer should recognize a given degree but that's going to be up to the employer. However legitimate a Spanish titulo propio might objectively be, it's still going to be a "degree with an explanation" and any student who pursues it for employment purposes needs to consider that fact. Being "right" doesn't necessarily equal being "hired".
     
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  5. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Acceptability is multi-leveled. Evaluators offer an opinion/recommendation, a respected one, but not the end-all-be-all definitive decision. You still have the opinion of each individual school, and each individual employer, and all of them have the freedom to make a decision on their own.
     
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I did, as you say, forget the precedence here. Looks like I was the first to holler "fraud" but not at propio degrees. I was recounting the damage done by holders of fraudulent degrees and saying some damage of the same sort could be done by less-than-scrupulous holders of propio degrees. None of us said the degrees were fraudulent.
    They are, I maintain, open to damaging misuse.

    And yes - I agree, degrees in general should not cost heaps of money. But in North America, they mostly do. And it might be hard for someone who spent say, $10K or more on a Master's and put in a couple of years (or more part-time) of sweat - to see someone who spent $249 on a Master's who thought he/she had a degree of similar value.

    And yes - we're still diametrically opposed - and likely to stay that way.
     
  7. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    And that's precisely the point. Apparently even in Spain the Spanish titulo propio is not accepted by other Spanish authorities. It's a "degree with an explanation".
     
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  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    As to acceptability being "multi-layered", I think you will find that few authorities or employers anywhere in the developed world will question the legitimacy of, say, a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering from New Mexico State University. There's nothing "multi-layered" about that. It's a "degree WITHOUT an explanation".
     
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  9. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    We're not diametrically opposed on everything, lol. We often agree. I actually see your point here:

    And yes - I agree, degrees in general should not cost heaps of money. But in North America, they mostly do. And it might be hard for someone who spent say, $10K or more on a Master's and put in a couple of years (or more part-time) of sweat - to see someone who spent $249 on a Master's who thought he/she had a degree of similar value.

    So, Sam spends $50,000 for his Masters and becomes head of his department after graduation. Jeff spends $249 for his Masters and becomes head of his department within the same company as Sam. Sam finds out Jeff only spent $249. Sam is angry. I get it.

    What I would ask Sam is, are you upset because he spent $249 to get where it took you $50,000? Or, are you upset that he found a way to do that and you didn't?
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I ws labouring away at a long post trying to express this very thought. Thanks for saying it more succinctly, Nosborne.
     
  11. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Sure, that can be said of any degrees from a well-known school. We've all used this position before when discussing the value-benefits of one school over another even within the United States. It still doesn't negate my point though, and what your response doesn't consider is that my point can be applied to many schools outside the United States that aren't immediately well-known. Some will accept, some won't. Many things outside of its country of origin will be draw some scrutiny from the receiving authorities and institutions of another country.
     
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    First thing I'd ask Sam would be to put down the AR-15! I don't need to ask him why he's angry. He's angry at the COMPANY that rewarded some self-inflated unethical clown who parlayed a $249 degree-with-explanations into a new job. A job like the one his $50K expense and mucho trabajo earned Sam. Companies that reward on this basis are themselves unethical - and I wouldn't want to work for one. I'm thankful I'm retired and out of the fray. Sometimes, posting here is hard enough. I'm getting tired. Me go nap now.
     
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  13. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Well, no, because anyone can look up the school in the database of regionally accredited colleges and universities. That's it. There's nothing "weird" needing "explanation". As to your comment about schools outside the U.S., that's exactly why I think American students should generally seek American degrees, at least in the case of distance learning. If you manage a D/L Masters in something from Western New Mexico University, hardly a well known institution, you are unlikely to experience any raised eyebrows from potential employers. The same D/L degree from a private school in Ulan Bator might not be so convincing.
     
  14. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    And even though NMSU has "Mexico" in its name, I can assure you, nobody is getting a foreign evaluation for any of their degrees. On the other hand, with the way standards have been lowered you never know.

    It shouldn't be expected that every degree from a foreign locale be immediately accepted the way a popular school in the United States would. I'm sure everyone in this thread understands that, but it's worth mentioning because I think when we start bringing up big name schools we're kind of losing perspective, unless we're saying we should only attend big name schools, and if that's the case this forum would be a ghost town.
     
  15. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    LOL! Maaaaaax.
     
  16. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I am also finished posting here because I've really said all I have to say. No one here is saying that a student shouldn't pursue a Spanish D/L degree whether bearing the government's imprimatur or not. It's not a moral issue. The only point I wish to make, and will keep on making, is that the student should be as sure as possible that the resulting degree will meet the student's further goals. That's all.
     
  17. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Man, you are ANGRY today! LOL!

    I'm scared :(
     
  18. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I'm actually totally in favor of that. Sadly, the prices of that avenue have made people start to look elsewhere more frequently.
     
  19. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Assuming they would even know to do that. I'm not saying every person in a position to hire is ignorant of these things. I am saying enough are that fake degrees holders are plentiful. I've known of some hiring managers that felt that if the school "sounded" fake, it was, and to the trash bin the resume went. There are competent people out there, but there are A LOT of idiots in charge of hiring who take very hard stances on things they don't even actually understand.
     
  20. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Agreed. Just think of all the years where pursuing a degree online was frowned upon and how opposers all were so certain online automatically meant inferior. This was coming almost entirely from people who never took a single online class.
     

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