Remember the Smart.ly MBA?

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Johann, Apr 6, 2019.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    We had a thread a while ago - the degree was almost free, but unaccredited, so...

    Guess what? the Smart.ly Institute has made it to DEAC's "To be considered" list. Still a way to go, I guess but firmly into the process, anyway.

    If they make it - this could turn out to be the surprise good ed-news of the decade. Lord knows, we need some!
     
    cookderosa and rodmc like this.
  2. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I thought University of the People was the good ed news of the decade, or was it not a surprise that they gained accreditation?
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If they make it, it will probably be in 2020 and that's a new decade.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    You have a point there, but I hope a school with a better name will manage to make it before 2030.
     
  5. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    • Smartly Institute, Washington, DC.... It is a terrible name, I love their courses. The College of Professional sounds better than Smartly Institute.
     
  6. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    You also have the New York University of Business and Technology (I haven't checked if they're on the list), and Nexford (already ASIC accredited).

    If I were in the market, I'd probably check out Western Governors before considering any of them. A lot of these programs are popping up claiming to be competency-based but most of them restrict how quickly you can move in one way or another, WGU doesn't.
     
    rodmc likes this.
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Nexford? It's in Washington DC and has a State License - which is not accreditation. Precisely what good will ASIC accreditation do for a US school? Real experts (not me) have told us it is pretty well meaningless in the sense of US accreditation. Not USDE or CHEA recognized. Not RA, not NA - zero clout. I wish Nexford luck - but right now it appears to be an unaccredited school, in US terms. Successful in raising money, though. They must be doing something right, but they'll need real accreditation.

    And yes, WGU has a good reputation. But the thing about SMART.ly was - it was pretty well FREE. Now, if they succed with DEAC and can offer an accredited program at super-low cost ...
     
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    "It's in Washington DC and has a State License" - I goofed. Nexford has, of course, a license from the HELC, (Higher Education Licensing
    Commission) District of Columbia
    . My position is still the same. the HELC itself says that its mandate is consumer protection and licensing is not accreditation. This isn't a New York Board of Regents situation. Yes, the school can legally operate in Washington DC. No, it doesn't have NA or RA accreditation.

    https://osse.dc.gov/page/frequently-asked-questions-students
     
  9. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I never made any qualifications of ASIC's accreditation or what it means for the United States. I simply stated the fact the school is ASIC accredited. But I can see more schools picking up ASIC accreditation as a stepping stone.

    With employers who only stipulate that a degree must be "accredited" for employment or reimbursement, it would (for better or worse) pass that first-level test. If an NA or RA stipulation is brought into the equation, then things change, but in my experiences I haven't seen most employers go that far. HOWEVER, when they do, they usually specifically mention regional accreditation even though most of them have no idea what it really means or the differences between it and other types. In the earlier 2000's I'd actually seen some employers stipulate that a degree must be "nationally accredited" and from that I was certain they didn't know what they were doing. There is a reason LinkedIn is stacked with profiles of highly-paid "professionals" with fake degrees from schools that never existed.
     
  10. Tireman 44444

    Tireman 44444 Well-Known Member

  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Not really, though it might sneak by a particularly uninformed person. When US employers ask if a degree is from an "accredited" school they usually mean an accreditor recognized by CHEA and/or USDoE. Usually, policy documents spell this out, or define specific type(s) of accreditation - RA, NA which are acceptable to the organization. Good luck with that job search, to those trying to sneak by. You never know, they might make it. Thousands have - with meaningless accreditation, bogus accreditation or none at all. Whatever.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

  13. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    There are a lot of particularly uninformed people in hiring departments. Just watching countless conversations across the net alone, I don't see people any more informed about accreditation today than they were 15 years ago, and it really gets me when I see blogs of professional organizations getting it completely wrong. The knowledge base here on this matter is an outlier, it's not the norm outside of this board, not in the least.

    Hence my point about the thousands of people on LinkedIn with high-paying jobs and fake degrees. People get through even to the CEO level before finally being outed and that routinely comes from someone on the outside of the hiring decisions.
     
  14. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    HR departments are notoriously bad at validating that a degree was earned or that it came from an accredited school. But, if you get by with an ASIC degree, it'll be because you slipped past a person who didn't know any better, not because ASIC is considered a recognized accreditor.
     
    Neuhaus and JBjunior like this.
  15. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    ASIC definitely isn't a recognized accreditor in the United States. I'm still not entirely sold on its status in the UK because they appear to be operating in a grey area. But, they've gotten through for so long now that I would hope it's because they have a legal right there, otherwise the authorities in the UK are asleep at the wheel.
     
  16. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I was with a Fortune 10 employer some years back and the only mention was "Accredited". I saw some people popping up with Rochville and Almeda degrees and getting away with it because they were using a fake accreditor. I wish employers overall were on top of their game with this but they're not. They may be just a little better today than back then because search engines have improved an awful lot and there is more information available, but like you said about LinkedIn being a strong indicator, it's pretty obvious that things are still a mess in that regard.

    I know some people are against it, but I'm all for outing people. It should happen a lot more often. People will need to get fired and publicly humiliated a lot more before the situation improves and people stop feigning ignorance regarding the legitimacy of a degree they bought and received in "15 days or less" with no coursework.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    They can do what they do in the UK - which does not include anything to do with degree-granting authority. ASIC had the responsibility of reporting that everything was above-board for the UK Border Agency - that the schools being inspected were real, classes were taking place and there weren't any immigration violations or hotbeds of foreign undesirables. Most of the ASIC-inspected schools were not degree-granting, and if some were, ASIC's approval had nothing to do with their degree-granting status - just their suitability as schools for immigrant students. Degree-granting status does not come from private accreditors in the UK.

    It is an offense under the Higher Education Act, 1998 for a British school to grant degrees unless it has the proper authority to do so. I've seen some mills get around that by having an offshore school award their degrees. There was a law school once (and it still may be operating - I have no idea) that awarded LL.B. degrees through an unaccredited school in the Southern US that it bought for this very purpose. ASIC had nothing to do with that one.

    ASIC created a separate branch for international operations. They make it clear that their accreditation has nothing to do with degree-granting permission or status. No form of accreditation gives a school that, anyway - a school has, or doesn't have, whatever permission its country of origin has granted. However, unscrupulous schools may insinuate that their ASIC accreditation makes their degrees just as 'good' as those of the major accreditors. It doesn't.

    I don't think ASIC is doing anything illegal - at home or abroad. They have done some unfortunate things, like granting accreditation to scam-schools, some of them Axact-related, but have quickly rescinded it when the scam became apparent. However, some unscrupulous school operators - and some people scouring the bargain-basements of higher education - tend to think or say that ASIC gives or enhances degree-granting authority - which it doesn't.
     
  18. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    My problem with ASIC is that they accredit American schools that can't gain accreditation from a U.S. accreditor. If you can't earn accreditation from ACCSC, ACICS, or DEAC, then you have some serious problems. There are foreign schools with institutional accreditation from U.S. organizations, but they're also approved to award degrees from local authorities. Athabasca University, for example, doesn't need Middle States accreditation. I assume they got it due to their proximity to the U.S. and to make the transferring of credits easier.
     
    Johann likes this.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I agree, it is a problem. Mainly because many people tend to think ASIC's accreditation is American-style accreditation - which it isn't. That's not entirely ASIC's fault, and I don't want to assign percentages of blame. They do the same thing in many countries-and say flat-out that their imprimatur does not convey or enhance degree-granting status. Apparently, not everybody listens.

    Athabasca, I assume, got its American accreditation to attract American students - Canada has a much smaller potential market. And hey, it worked!
     
  20. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Every time I see the name 'Athabasca' (which happens infrequently) I think hot sauce.
     
    Johann likes this.

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