Antifa

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Jul 2, 2018.

Loading...
  1. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    The fact that there's alt-right, and it's bigger, is the biggest argument Antifa have for existing. The argument against them comes from all the ways USA in 2017 is unlike 1933 Germany, at least at the moment. Forcing this comparison doesn't make me again's case, to put it mildly.
     
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Also, calling Antifa any kind of a "wing" of the Democratic Party is dumb.
     
  3. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Fascists were explicitly anti-capitalist. So fascism is/was third-way?
     
  4. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Communists-Socialists ideologies have rapidly taken over the DNC platform, which has caused a "blue drain" (instead of a blue wave). The DNC platform is eviscerated from mainstream America and it will be electorally demonstrated in the upcoming mid-term elections. The DNC "socialists" platform cannot be maintained, except in urban dense areas like New York, etc.

    In New York, the Democratic Party’s rising socialist icon – Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez – had an upset primary victory over establishment Democrat Joe Crowley in New York.
    • Democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez raised $200,000 and won.
    • Democrat Joe Crowley raised 3 million and lost to her.
    Democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a hard-core socialists and she promised:
    • Jobs for everyone
    • Medicare for all
    • Abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    • Housing as a human right
    • Etc.
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez campaign flier:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/QQdhW0M9rlpQQQcbR5-XWOb_qG4=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/UGNBXVMM6QZ6BDMVB5PHC4BQ4Q.jpg

    Full story:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/27/ocasio-cortez-beat-joe-crowley-campaigning-on-medicare-for-all-guaranteed-jobs-and-abolishing-ice/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.33f3fdcc6f55

     
  5. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm more DNC but good for her. You'd notice that nothing in her platform has anything to do with Antifa? As for "hard-core" socialism: dude, wake me up when she calls for revolution and confiscation of businesses. Without nationalizing production and violent class warfare it's not even Socialism: ask Carl Marx.

    I believe what you lack is a good history education. Very different groups find themselves on the right side of history. Modern Antifa groups want to be associated with the 1932-33 Hitler-fightin' original, despite very, very little historical connection. You are helping to propagate their narrative. Similarly, both my grandfather and my new friend in church joined the same RKKA (Red Army) that illegally seized the Baltic States, invaded Poland, Mongolia, Finland, and helped brutalize Soviet Union's own population - but nevertheless, they were heroes fighting the good fight, as USSR was on the right side of history 1941-45, in alliance with the USA and UK. Another example: most European hard right punks right noware useful idiots on Putin's payroll (and so are radical to hard Left ones: it's easier to get minions when you abandon ideology and move on to straight thuggery), while some people on the very same flank in Ukraine are fighting Putin on the frontline in Donbass. Get some perspective already.
     
  6. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Full story:
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/07/03/abolish-ice-vandals-nebraska/
     
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Context: as ill-advised as Rep. Waters' calls may be, "radical ideology" she's pushing here is strong opposition to putting innocent children in cages. What the Daily Caller, you, and other radical right-wing agitators are trying to do here is deflect attention from this fact and give POTUS opportunity to dehumanize brown people some more. Also, to abolish an agency the Republic had done without till 2003 is not "radical", it's a policy proposal well within the confines of normal debate.

    More context: candidate Trump flat out called on "second amendment people" to murder his opponent should she win. And called Charlottesville Nazis "very fine people". Among other things.
     
    Abner likes this.
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    During the second world war the Soviets were not the good guys, they were merely the less pressing set of bad guys who were usefully fighting the more pressing set of bad guys.
     
    decimon likes this.
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    "Fighting Hitler" kind of falls into my definition of being the "good guys". Most Red troops 1941-45 had no other motivation. Also, US was in full blown alliance with the "less pressing set of bad guys". Being in the Red Army on the German Front those days was how people from those corners fought the good fight. Similarly, it is very possible that the most effective way to stand up to the Brownshirts in 1930ies Germany was to join one of the Commie-affiliated gangs, some of which used the AA moniker. This does not negate the fact that Stalin was megalomaniacal psychopath, and German Communist Party, as any Marxist-Leninist party in any country, called for the bloody "world revolution" and in normaller times was borderline criminal (and full of Soviet spies).

    The point is, comparing the modern wannabees to 1932 Antifaschistische Aktion is to glorify said wannabees, and to further the narrative that Trump's America is a Nazi state in formation. And that last argument is, though not without merit, a premature one (Russia, OTOH, is full-blown Fascist state with Antifascist branding). In effect, me again advances a stronger pro-Antifa argument than what most on the Left (not mentioning Clintonite moderates such as myself) are willing to further.
     
  10. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    "It takes a brave man to be a coward in the Red Army." - Stalin or Zhukov or one of those big commies.

    It was fight and maybe die or not fight and surely die.
     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    USSR sucks (even though I'm sure neither of the two famous war leaders slash butchers said these words). Nevertheless, what we're talking about is a major US ally in the biggest war ever. US ally. As in, shooting in the same direction as you are. They were on the right side of history - as were the original Antifa in 1932 Germany, despite their Commie roots. Equating modern Antifa with these people is a compliment to the new guys, which I am not sure is fully deserved, Me again paid the Antifa a compliment that I'm not currently willing to give.
     
  12. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, you are either a liar, delusional, misinformed, gullible or straight-up "disinformation." The jury is deliberating.

    <-----left-----<
    Totalitarian Rulers
    Nazis and Communists
    Cradle to grave government intervention
    <-----left-----<

    <---<
    Centeric Fallacy
    Idyllic centrists are forcibly dragged to the left. Eventually

    <---<
    >------right------>
    Freedom!!!
    Elected Representative Governments!!!
    Independence and entrepreneurship!!!
    >------right------>
    The United States flag is red, white and blue. The red stripes are symbolic of the blood that was shed for freedom. Men died to achieve it. And men will die preserving the Constitution of the United States. We will never give up the Constitution. Period.
     
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Keep telling yourself that jailing children and crass corruption equals "Freedom!!!!!". The fact that you had to descend to "Q" madness speaks volumes. Enjoy your period.
     
  14. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, why do you classify patriotism for the United States as "Q madness"? Please explain.
     
  15. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Oh I see: when you shared "everything to know about Q" with the board, you purged your memory of it. Convenient. Or you just play dumb, the jury is out.
     
  16. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Yes, Antifa is a cancer, but so long as they stay true to their principles, they are not dangerous in the way the Nazis were, because they are not about control of the state and subjugation of people. They tend to hate the state, they're into anarchy. Crazy, sure, but an existential threat to the world like the Nazis were 85 years ago? No.
     
  17. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Agreed. The average 22 year old spoiled brat wearing a black mask and frothing at the mouth has no more in common with Nancy Pelosi than some Neo-Nazi lunatic running for county commissioner in Podunk, Alabama and frothing at the mouth has with Mitch McConnell.
     
  18. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, it is true that an anonymous YouTube was posted about Q, but that doesn't explain why you classify patriotism for the United States as "Q Madness."

    Stanislav, please note that the folloiwng chart shows how Nazis, Communists, dictators and totalitarian governments are all on the left, while freedom and Constitutional liberty are on the right:

    <-----left-----<
    Totalitarian Rulers
    Nazis and Communists
    Cradle to grave government intervention
    <-----left-----<

    <---<
    Centeric Fallacy
    Idyllic centrists are forcibly dragged to the left. Eventually

    <---<
    >------right------>
    Freedom!!!
    Elected Representative Governments!!!
    Independence and entrepreneurship!!!
    >------right------>
     
  19. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Their principles are BS, anarchist as a ruse.
     
  20. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

Share This Page