DBA: California Southern University vs. University of the Cumberlands

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by lifeisfun365, Oct 11, 2017.

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  1. lifeisfun365

    lifeisfun365 New Member

    Would appreciate a pro/con breakdown of both schools for a DBA, especially from people who completed their degree programs at either school.

    If you'd like to share information via PM instead of public posting, please feel free to. Additionally, I am willing to do a paid email/PM consult with current and former students (or someone with a lot of program knowledge, like a current instructor at either school) to get more information. In my mind, as I am looking to spend a good amount of time and money on a DBA program, it's worth paying for a consultation to get a more "unadulterated" feel for either school :)

    If anyone has suggestions for other program options, I'd like to hear them. However, these two schools seem to tick the boxes for some of my main concerns, which are (1) regional accreditation, (2) low cost, and (3) quicker than average time to completion.

    Of the two, I am leaning towards California Southern as they seem to allow more transfer credit (30 vs. 15 hours of a 60 credit program) and I feel that the program overall would be quicker to complete.

    In any event, both programs seem to have minimal to zero prestige, but of the two, Cumberlands may be the more "prestigious" one as it was founded in the late 1880s and has a physical campus. However, I think if a hiring manager was concerned about prestige, neither school would do well at all.

    However, California Southern does seem to be seeking ACBSP accreditation, while Cumberlands is not. If California Southern does eventually obtain ACSBP accreditation (like NCU did, which was founded by the current California Southern owner), attending now may end up being a very cost effective way for me to obtain a degree with the potential to have a slightly better market perception down the road.

    My goal with the DBA is to find more online teaching opportunities (and I am already working in the field). Thanks to this community for any insights!
     
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    We have a few members here who are alumni or students in the Cumberlands Ph.D. in Leadership program, they could probably give some insight as to the program structure, and what to expect. We have no D.B.A. students or alums that I know of.
     
  3. lifeisfun365

    lifeisfun365 New Member

    I guess information regarding the PhD in Leadership at Cumberlands would be helpful somewhat as there is a decent amount of overlap between that older program and their new DBA program.
     
  4. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    I don't think UC and Calsouth are on the same scale. UC is middle of the pack like most schools, CAlsouth is bottom of the heap. After reading, it felt like an ad for Calsouth. One has to be gambler to put 30k in Calsouth when there are better options like UC.
     
  5. lifeisfun365

    lifeisfun365 New Member

    Calsouth with 30 out of 60 credits transferred in turns into a $15,000 degree. Compared to $22,500 at UC with 15 out of 60 transferred.

    And, while I agree that UC may have some slightly higher prestige, I think that may also be combined with a degree program that draws itself out. To compare, looking at Wilmington University's DBA, which I have seen mentioned in the "cheap" threads. It is $600+ a credit hour and they don't allow any transfer credit. Based on their press release: https://www.wilmu.edu/news/newsarticle.aspx?newsid=1429, it took at least 4 years (2008 to 2012) for some members of their first class to graduate.

    Time is an investment as well, and I am not interested in taking 4-5+ years to complete a degree program, especially when most full-time, residential DBAs seem to only require 3 years.
     
  6. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member


    I agree. 30K is a lot of money to drop, better to go with UC.
     
  7. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    I know this isn't entirely relevant, especially to one looking at online, but I drove by the UC campus earlier this year. Absolutely beautiful, one of the nicest settings I've ever seen.
     
  8. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Employers take notice of such things.
     
  9. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Funny, but you're right, they do. How are you and that lovely lady?
     
  10. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    We are doing good. I am taking Kim to chemo today. She just has one more session to go after today. :)
     
  11. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    Best wishes to Kim!
     
  12. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Great to hear that blasted chemo is coming to an end--let's pray it does its job!
     
  13. iryancooper

    iryancooper New Member

    Though I'm about 6 months behind responding, I shall for the benefit of others comparing these two schools.

    I'm actually NOT an alum of the Ph.D. Leadership, or D.B.A., but instead, I was accepted into their Ph.D. Clinical Psychology program (which has been replaced with a Psy.D. for incoming students).

    SPOILER ALERT: I found this thread by searching on google: " 'california southern' withhold degree 'paid off' "


    Re: Prestige:
    One of the main reasons I chose Cumberlands' Ph.D. in Clinical Psych over other largely online options, was because their name had not been drug through the online-muck. Not to say that online schools (Argosy, Capella, Walden, etc.) are actually muck, or should be considered muck; but they often are. Cumberlands - as FTFaculty points out - is absolutely beautiful. And best of all, their name doesn't perk the ears of online-naysayers, in ways that Capella and Walden do. In a field like clinical psychology, that is not important for licensure, but it is important (or at least somewhat so) for collegial relationships and especially and psycho-legal work (forensic psych, etc.). So, Cumberlands is certainly not "the most prestigious" school one could choose, but it also (1) doesn't raise red flags, (2) it's been around since the 1800's, (3) it has a truly lovely brick and mortar campus, (4) it has a tech-savvy Northern Kentucky campus with a great top notch facility for psych training, nurse training, and physician assistant training, (5) it is grounded in an ideology highly valuable to many folks in the Southern states: the Souther Baptist Convention (lol), and (6) not joke - the faculty really are highly experienced in their respective fields (qualifier: from what I've seen).

    Re: Price:
    The is probably the second reason I chose Cumberlands. If it were more expensive, I would have still chosen it for the reason above. But, the cost for doctoral education is skyrocketing as the internet has made it the "new bachelor's degree." Cumberlands still has its price tag set based on the needed accessibility of the Appalachian population. Disclaimer: I think as Cumberlands starts figuring out that it can charge more, it will. (My own personal opinion - beyond the scope of this post - is that the administration at Cumberlands is struggling with how to survive when it's growing too fast... for more, PM me). I can tell you that many traditional BAM students in clinical psychology detest online learning primarily because they view it as subpar in comparison to brick and mortar learning (a topic for another thread), but they often cite the cost as well. In fact, on of my cohort members, at only 23 years of age, attended Cumberlands for her undergraduate degree, her M.A. in Clinical Psychology, and her Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology - AND WILL GRADUATE DEBT FREE. The cost is affordable enough that this is possible. Best of all? She'll have no problems with licensure, she got an excellent education and research experience, and he DID NOT have to engage in all the drama of applying to 5%-acceptance-rate APA-accredited programs. (She's truly a fantastic practitioner - hat's off to achievement).

    Re: Credit Transfer:
    I agree that CalSouther has a nice transfer policy. And I can NOT speak to the DBA program at UC. However, the Ph.D. program accepted several of my credits from Harvard Extension (which were all four-credit-hour courses, and they transferred them in as three-credit-hours). CalSouthern seems to also have a nice policy, as I have looked very closely at them when other hopeful-psychologists approach me and ask about online education... however...

    Re: CalSouthern:
    My biggest complaint is the financial structure. First, the president has taken it upon himself to decide that students at CalSouthern should not have the option to finance their education through the Federal government. He has personal beliefs about student borrowing (and I happen to agree with them), but he - because he is in a position to do so - has forced those believes on any and all would-be students of CalSouthern. I have serious objections to this. Whether you borrow money to cover the cost of your degree is a personal choice, and it is sad to see an otherwise EXCELLENT degree program (I speak of Pys.D., but I'm sure the D.B.A. as well) be unavailable because HE chose to impose his ideas on adults who have the capacity to form their own. Instead they offer what seems to be an admirable alternative: they will let you pay-out your degree--interest free--at a minimum of around $300-$400 a month. Not bad... however...

    Re: CalSouthern Even Worse:
    My understanding (this is from current [as of May 7, 2018] CalSouthern students) is that CalSouthern will also HOLD your degree hostage until the entire amount is paid off. In other words, you can technically complete a Doctor of Psychology in Clinical Psychology in 2 years (if you are moving at the accelerated rate, already have a master's, and does not count internship year). You can do this paying only $399 a month (as of this posting). However, if you want to continue paying that monthly amount, you'll need to wait ANOTHER FIVE YEARS... at that rate... to finally finish paying off the 35k it took to get the degree, before you have it mailed to you. (That, or write a massive check at the end). Or, if you wish to drag out the entire degree for seven years, then you'll have paid for it by the time you graduate. SUMMARY: the financial aid dictation is not ideal for most American students, but may be for foreign students who would be paying cash, anyhow.

    I do think that CalSouthern is a good school - from my research (and I'm a total research whore). They seem to have excellent faculty, and from all accounts, they truly do care about their students.

    I also think that they lack the stigma that comes along with Phoenix, Capella, Walden, Liberty, Argosy, etc. Frankly, "California Southern University" will raise less eyebrows than "Capella University" will (not say that is how it should be; only that it's how it is). With that said, "University of the Cumberlands" will probably raise even less--and that's one of the reasons I chose it.

    What's funny is that I chose Cumberlands because it was less "online-y" than others.

    As it turns out, I've actually become a massive advocate for online/hybrid learning, having attended Harvard both in person and online via extension, the first ABA-Approved Law School in person and online, and doing my Ph.D. in person and online.

    My last point: The OP's goal was teaching:

    Back in October CalSouthern had not received ACBSP accreditation. Now it has.
    Cumberlands hadn't then, and hasn't now - to my knowledge.

    My advice then - for people comparing/contrasting this dilemma, is this: If you are wanting to teach (as the OP said), screw prestige. If your program screams "I went to an online school," then sell that. It was accredited by ACBSP, so it met the same standards as did BAM schools. And it did so while serving a student body VASTLY different then "prestigious" schools. By vastly different, I mean this: your colleagues were single moms working full time jobs, physicians, psychologists, architects, airline pilots, hell - zoologists! The body of students you learn with via the Internet is incredibly stimulating. Online learning (or hybrid learning rather) is exactly where ALL of education is going... need proof? Look at Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Brown, Virginia... it IS the future.

    There was a time where you had to select your school based on whether someone would or wouldn't "find out" that it was partially - or primarily - online.

    That time has largely (but not totally) passed.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but college teaching may be among the last settings this time will completely pass. No diss on CalSouthern, which seems to have its stuff together.
     
  15. Sheri

    Sheri New Member

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