Will grad school improve your finances?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by decimon, Oct 21, 2016.

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  1. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Market Watch
    Catherine New
    Oct. 21, 2016

    Graduate school is not cheap. It’s a decision that will cost you both time and money, so you want to make sure it’s the right call before signing on for student loans, taking time out of the workforce, and living on a diet of ramen noodles for at least two years.

    For many degrees, you’ll likely have to take on some debt — unless you have substantial savings or win a scholarship (bravo!) — and those loans can take years to pay off.

    The upside, however, is that you’ll likely be earning a higher salary for the rest of your life if you stick to your new career path.

    More... Will grad school improve your finances? - MarketWatch

    What say ye? These things usually look like they are for select groups of people rather than for most.
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I think any attempt to generalize this sort of thing to "grad school" is so oversimplified that it's asking the wrong question.
     
  3. TomE

    TomE New Member

    If we're including law school in the discussion, I know plenty of people who went the T4 route who wished they had skipped college altogether with the amount of debt that they have taken on for less-than-ideal current and future job prospects.

    Anecdotal evidence, sure, but I think there are plenty of people who would resoundingly answer "NO!" to the topic question.
     
  4. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    From all I've seen, job prospects for law school graduates have been dismal. Enrollment in law schools is down with some universities either closing down their law schools or considering it.

    Education has become a racket. Our vaunted universities are not honest with their students and the students are not honest in their studies. Maybe we should call the schools satrapies.
     
  5. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    The idea that grad school is going to automatically translate into higher wages is one that should die for the good of society. Certain career paths require a grad degree for entry. Social work, professional counseling, physical therapy and, in some cases, teaching are all examples.

    For some career paths you can get in with a bachelor's degree but will hit a ceiling without a masters degree before too long. And then there are places where a masters degree is unlikely to ever be a requirement for your job or any promotion.

    My MBA is not necessary for any promotion I could ever hope for. I'm pursuing it for more or less personal reasons. At $50k if my employer wasn't picking up the tab it is highly unlikely I'd ever justify the expense. At this stage of my career if I become a VP of HR it will be due to the work I've done. The MBA might be a nice "check the box" but it isn't going to make or break me. That's not how hiring at that level works.

    There are people who haven't reached their peak earning potential with an undergrad degree. So they rush out and get a grad degree and then make the same money but with more debt. That's not good. Nor is it good that degrees have inflated to the point where it is an entry level credential for some fields where it is, perhaps, inappropriate.

    These articles are irritating because, as Steve says, it's really impossible to reduce "grad school" to a singular concept. It's a generic term that encompasses virtually every field. There simply can't be the same rule of thumb for every profession.
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Based on my wife's experience, the key to success as a new lawyer is (1) to be knowledgeable about the law, (2) to be knowledgeable about a particular subject area that is in demand (in her case cryptocurrencies), and (3) be good at professional networking to be able to bring in clients.

    Law school only covers the first one.

    Education isn't a racket. Poor planning and lack of goal setting is a racket. Always has been, always will be.
     
  7. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    The schools have not been honest about job prospects as students rush to this discipline or that.

    There is obvious cronyism in the expansion of administrative jobs when computerization should have reduced such need. I don't think that the creation of the Diversity, Inclusion and Gender Ambiguity departments quite accounts for the expansion.

    They're sucking in as much taxpayer money as they can.
     
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    And that's where the ultimate problem lies.
     
  9. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Except that the students are much herded. It begins in high school with the adviser, Ms Twinkleheifer. It continues in the colleges where they may focus on filling classrooms.
     
  10. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    If you look at some of the top executives in the country you start noticing an interesting trend; MBAs are not nearly as common as one would expect and Harvard isn't the top player.

    I'm confident that if you went to any guidance counselor in any high school and asked which would almost assuredly lead one to success, an MBA from Harvard or a B.A. in Art History from Amherst, they would select the former.

    Thing is though that the reason we see people dropping out of college and going on to make billions is because there was something in them that drove them to take those sorts of risks. Bill Gates had more computer time by the time he arrived at Harvard as people who had been studying there for years at a time when computer time was at a premium.

    Did Harvard fail him? Was his attendance nothing more than the result of unscrupulous admissions folks trying to hit numbers?

    Colleges and universities provide an education. Only recently did a lot of people take on the notion that colleges and universities were the only legitimate source of obtaining that education.

    Two lawyers graduate from the same law school with the same GPA. One goes on to found a successful firm while the other desperately offers to fix your traffic tickets for $99.

    The school can help you with the knowledge piece. Sometimes, but not often, they can even help you with the development of professional skills piece. But whether you get promoted is very seldom dependent solely on a degree unless you work in a place with rigid job families or banding (like the federal government). The rest of it lies in how well you do your job and, often more importantly, how well liked you are by colleagues and managers.

    As for getting jobs, period, it seems to differ greatly among students depending upon their personalities. Some want to return to their small hometowns and then complain about not finding work. Others are willing to move across the country or world, possibly working in a different (slightly or otherwise) field. The school can prepare you academically for the world. But we shouldn't hold schools accountable when your own personal shortcomings hold you back in life.

    Too many schools? Yes there are. Title IV making everything more expensive? It certainly is. Some schools engaged in shady recruitment? Absolutely. All of higher ed a sham? Hardly.
     
  11. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    A racket is not a sham. If you wish to gamble or indulge an opoid stupor then you can get what you pay for.

    A sham would be babbling about the 'critical thinking' you memorized from some Little Red Book.
     
  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I think this is correct. I think the wild card in this games is how the individual handles themselves. Neuhaus touched on this in his last post (above). If I have a BA in History and I'm working in some retail store ( not an unlikely scenario) and I then earn a Masters in History without doing anything else in my life, then I will likely lose money in the end. If, on the other hand, I also pick up a teaching cert and become a High School History teacher then my salary will likely increase. Same degree, different result. Also, I continue to believe that a missing factor in this equation is the willingness to relocate. We've heard stories, for example about Nursing jobs being scare in one place but plentiful in another. STEM teaching jobs are out there if you're willing to move. Now I understand that moving is not always easy or desirable but that makes it more important to plan this stuff out rather than just go out and earn the grad degree with your fingers crossed hoping it will translate into employment/money.
     
  13. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    To an extent I agree.

    Elsewhere I advised someone wanting to break into HR to not earn an MSHRM and to instead focus on HR credentials and getting that foot in the door with an HR job.

    I did this because earning the MSHRM without first working in HR is at an automatic disadvantage. The MSHRM can enhance your career potential and can pad your earnings. Whether it will depends upon the individual, the local job market, particular skills and a variety of other factors.

    Sadly people just default to earning degrees because that is what their parents and guidance counselors taught them was really the only way to prepare for a career.

    Meanwhile, the individual working in the retail store might well find that, if they work hard and are reliable, they are soon being tapped for a key supervisor (literally the person who has the keys to the store) and eventually a store manager. Perhaps even then a regional manager and up through the ranks. The individual with a BA in History could eventually become an executive at that retail chain. Their success as an employee and, eventually, a manager will dictate their future much more than their degree major.
     
  14. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    That looks like good advice for people starting out with nothing going for them. Get in the game and then build your credentials as needed.
     
  15. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Yes, that can also occur.
     
  16. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    For professional degrees (JD, MD, dentistry, pharmacy, etc.) the answer is yes.

    For most non-professional graduate degrees (theology, criminal justice, political science, sociology, history, underwater basket weaving, etc.), there are too many variables to give a one-size-fits-all-answer. However, if you want to make money, then get a professional degree!
     
  17. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    Medical, STEM, Business have good ROI. Anything has to do with "STUDIES" in the title are considering bad return on investment and judgement.
    - Master of Arts in African Studies
    - Master of Arts in Liberal Studies
    - Master of Arts in Women Studies

    Is she carrying a broomstick for graduation ceremony? hahahah

    [​IMG]
     
  18. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Looks more like she's planning to puncture the colon of that guy in front of her.
     
  19. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

    I 100% agree with you........................
     
  20. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

    Universities are less about education and free thinking and all about mental social conditioning. Bill Gates and his types do not have a Ph.D for a reason. They need to think outside the box.
     

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