Low Graduation Rates

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Kizmet, Oct 14, 2016.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  2. TomE

    TomE New Member

    25 percent 6-year rate seems like a pretty low bar to me, but I guess you have to start somewhere. I'd actually like to see the 6-year measure reduced at some point in an effort to address extra years of tuition, fees, etc. that students are incurring.
     
  3. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I don't feel graduation rates are low. College is supposed to be challenging. Everyone shouldn't be able to graduate.

    Tuition is too high. That's the real issue. I saw an ad for an MBA program that was over $100K. The academic world has gone mad... with greed.
     
  4. TomE

    TomE New Member

    I disagree with the bolded statement. College have admissions standards and employ college success predictors (test scores, etc.) to ensure that the most capable students are gaining admission to their institutions. Theoretically, these admission standards are in relation to the rigors of the institution. College should be challenging, but not so challenging that capable students are failing out at high rates. Whether the solution is to raise standards so that unqualified students do not gain admittance, provide better instruction, or a host of other possible solutions, I don't think that accepting high dropout rates is an acceptable option.
     
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Wow, what a shameless request for exemption from offering a quality education to one's students.
     
  6. jhp

    jhp Member

    I might be too old, but I do remember several exemplary new freshmen, who became drunkards and in general indolent by third quarter of that year.
     
  7. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2016
  8. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Open enrollment and specifically online programs that generally subsist on open enrollment, has had a major impact on that approach.

    If the failing students were capable they wouldn't be failing students. There are exceptions, but as a whole this is certain.

    Considering the tuition debt crisis, I'd bet the dropout rates have a lot to do with tuition costs more so than academics.

    About failing students, it's like I said in another thread on a similar subject: when graduation rates are high, people complain that the standards are too low. When graduation rates are low, people complain that the standards are too high. Both sides want something in the middle not realizing that such a thing would be a perfect world scenario. This is not a perfect world. Some argue that standards are generally too low aside from the grad rates.

    At the end of the day, neither side will ever be pleased entirely.
     
  9. TomE

    TomE New Member

    I agree with the last two paragraphs and I think that we see this in microcosms in individual classrooms. Too many A's and too many F's are generally bad news for instructors.

    That being said, in regards to your paragraph, I think the problem is that more lax standards that allow unqualified students in in the first place can be part of the problem. Colleges need to looking more closely at the relationship between student expectations and incoming student profiles to ensure a proper balance is being maintained.

    Unfortunately, with high school grade inflation running rampant, it is increasingly difficult for instructors to make "true" assessments of student qualifications and capabilities.
     
  10. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    While I think it's admirable to help people pull themselves up by getting them in to college, once they are in you should also be prepared to give them a level of assistance required to keep them in college. Otherwise it just seems like a set-up for failure.
     
  11. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Well said.

    One school I earned a degree from has a very well-crafted and rigorous independent study system. It is, however, open enrollment and few of its graduates ever earn a degree, but it has countless diploma program graduates. When you visit its message board and read the messages from the student body, you quickly realize the type of atmosphere the lack of admission standards can create. The students are well-meaning, but many miles far from scholarly.
     
  12. TomE

    TomE New Member

    Very interesting and definitely a program that seems like it adheres to the "get out what you put in" approach. Does it charge the same amount of tuition as more traditional programs? I think that one of the problems that we're starting to see with free or extremely low cost programs is that without enough "skin in the game", students are more willing to walk away if they lose interest, get busy, etc. Finding that "sweet spot" between expensive enough and too expensive may be the most important advancement!
     
  13. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    It's definitely much cheaper than a traditional 4-year program and even most 2-year programs. I'd liken the prices to a low-cost community college.

    You make a good point about the downside of the lower cost programs. With the independent study programs especially, it's essentially self-correcting. You bring in hordes of students that wouldn't get admitted anywhere with stronger standards, but only the students who are the most determined and able to prove themselves in the work will make it through to the end.
     
  14. TomE

    TomE New Member

    Yes, definitely. One would think that less-qualified students may need that extra attention or guidance in the classroom to achieve successful outcomes, but this approach is pretty much the opposite. Low relative payment and little oversight and...well...I know there are cheap good and services that I have purchased without anything to keep me accountable. Predictably, these things got little use.
     

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