Euclid University

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by jfosj, Apr 10, 2016.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed. Remember the Principality of Seborga, unrecognized by the Italian Government? Many schools. Remember Hutt River Province (Australia). Now that one had to be recognized to some degree. Created by a very clever farmer, Prince Leonard (Casley). At one point, both "countries" registered a few, um - "borderline schools of colourful pedigree," as Stanislav put it.

    However, I can easily think of some "real" countries that beat these two hands-down for registration of dud schools. Starting with the current champ - Pakistan... moving on to South Pacific... and thence to the Caribbean.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2017
  2. Messdiener

    Messdiener Active Member

    I wrote to the Principality of Seborga some years ago and specifically asked about educational institutes. The response clearly came back that there are no educational institutes of any level.

    Did there used to be?
     
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    The fun aspect of Euclid is its mystery - it's origin story is convoluted and suggests a fake school, but it is not at all clear if it is fake, per se. They certainly don't appear to sell papers on anything approaching Axact scale; they seem to have a focus on diplomacy and inter-religious dialogue (even if it appears amateurish); faculty members are fringe but possess real degrees. Fr. Laurent is an example - his credentials are non-traditional, to be sure, but he is a cleric in a canonically-valid Church with a Masters and, arguably, a recognized Doctorate, a (self-published but pretty good) book and four peer-reviewed articles. So for me, enrolling in this school is too risky if done for any career purposes (unless, you know, you're African diplomat doing it for free), but a degree from there is not a time bomb like Seborgan degree would be. It's an "interesting" school on par with, maybe, Azteca, but with funner people involved.
     
    Michael Burgos likes this.
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Almost forgot - the best fake country for this discussion is Lomar! It currently appears to be taken over by John Kersey AKA Mar Edmundus, Prince-Patriarch of Everything. The guy seems to vacuum up any orphaned fantasy entity with more than a paragraph of back story. Maybe we can coordinate with the country's original founder, Fr. Cleenewerck, and stage a revolution against the San Luigian invader. Dibs on Prime Minister post.
     
  5. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Or an undoubted sovereign state with a stronger reputation for corruption and instability than for credible higher education.

    States have the legal authority to create, recognize and regulate higher education institutions within their borders, but that doesn't always give those of us outside those borders very much useful information about the academic value of those institutions. In the case of foreigners using the country as an off-shore address-of-convenience for a DL enterprise, it's even worse. It's often impossible to know what kind of academic oversight that enterprise receives from the locals (if any). Approvals might just mean that the right people were paid off. (We saw precisely that with St. Regis and Liberia.)

    I remain hugely skeptical.
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yes, and this is the biggest issue with Euclid. There is just no credible outside oversight. It seems that they attempted to create one by helping build the accreditation agency in The Gambia, but that country is, charitably, an unproven entity right now after the departure of a long-term dictator.

    Side note: it's highly doubtful Fr. Laurent can pay off anyone. Orthodox Church in America pays poorly, and it doesn't appear that his other activities are money makers.
     
  7. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    Oh yes, quite a few actually. But that was before Sir Geoffrey Taylor (Southern Pacific University) fell from grace with Prince Leonard and relocated to Vanuatu.
     
  8. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    Here's a list of universities that were registered in Hutt River:

    Southern Pacific University
    Pebble Hills University
    Johnson Davids University
    Australasia International University
    Hutt River University
    Bryce University
    Gordon University
    University of National Union
    American Culture University

    American Culture University claims it's still registered and licensed by Hutt River, but according to the HR Companies Gazette, ACU was de-registered on May 13, 2011.
     
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    "Universities" - registered and "accredited" in Seborga? Oh yes - and how! Over 20 of them, back in the day. We have old threads on practically ALL of them. It was hard to keep up.
    Given a little time, I could come up with a comprehensive list of them but ... why? The local authorities put a stop to it all, quite some time ago.

    "The law stepped in and called it sin
    To have a little fun."

    * (from the movie - New Orleans, 1947 -sung by Billie Holiday)


    Here's one of the old threads. http://www.degreeinfo.com/accreditation-discussions-ra-detc-state-approval-unaccredited-schools/19852-coming-soon-new-seborga-mills.html

    * I saw that movie a few years later, when I was 9 or 10. The music and Ms. Holiday's singing made a lasting impression on me.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2017
  10. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    Apparently, I completely missed that Messdiener was asking a question about Seborga and not Hutt River. I'm sorry about that.

    As far as Seborga is concerned, it was once home to Pebble Hills University and linked to the International University of Fundamental Studies, Russia. There are few if any universities claiming recognition from Seborga nowadays, with the possible exception of the New Age International University.
     
  11. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Active Member

    Bump. According to the website, "EUCLID is accredited by the Ministry of Higher Education of the Headquarters State" of CAR, and "EUCLID is accredited by the National Accreditation and Quality Assurance Authority" of Gambia (here).
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yes. Question is, can we trust these organizations?

    As I mentioned elsewhere, our friend Fr. Laurent Cleenewerck is listed as a research methods advisor, and boasts several research articles co-autored with its graduates. This suggests some level of academic activity.
     
  13. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Active Member

    The typical metric I hear from people in the accreditation/evaluation biz is official recognition by a gov't. Gambia would seem to be the most stable IMO.

    The faculty looks qualified.
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Saint Regis case comes to mind. Euclid was a weird duck claiming a novel "recognition by treaty" from half a dozen countries, all without robust HE sector, and the most visible admin at the school is a priest who in the past founded a micronation. Not what I can call "typical". On the other hand, seems different enough from Saint Regis.

    It does.
     
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Qualified faculty. Small number of students, at least initially. Signs of scholarly life. No evidence they are selling diplomas. Fr. Laurent is an interesting, fringe-but-real scholar and a mainstream priest. Other than the address of "headquarters" being on the same CONTINENT (not much of a similarity), what makes it SIMILAR to SRU?
     
  17. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Active Member

    Indeed. However, its degree programs, especially its MPH, demonstrate some recognition. Its interesting, for sure.
     
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    All true. I was just grinding your gears, as you grind mine occasionally. You felt it, I guess - hence your reply.
    You grind. I poke. I grind. you poke. And the game goes on. Whoever dies with the most pokes -- wins. Unless we both stop it.
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Recognition by a central government used to be one of the criteria used to evaluate the legitimacy of a school and the degrees it issues. But that has be superseded by foreign credential evaluators. It doesn't matter if the Central African Republic, Gambia or even might Eswatini says it's good. You're still going to need a foreign degree evaluation here in the U.S. (There will always be exceptions, but that doesn't change the facts.)
     
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  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Just a minnit here! I hope there's no suggestion that the Traditional Monarch of Eswatini (I believe he is King Eswati III) is accrediting schools nowadays? I remember that the Traditional Monarchs of Bunyoro and Kitara in Uganda did that for a while, then the Government of Uganda reminded them that was not within their traditional powers, and then the unauthorized practice stopped. I'm sure the Eswatini Government feels the same way...

    Mbabane, do we have a problem?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2023

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