Universidad central de nicaragua (again)

Hello all,

I realise this institution has come up before, but the threads it was featured in seemed inconclusive to me, so I decided to bring it up again and see if anything more had come to light.
From what I can see, this university is accredited in Nicaragua and has various accreditation internationally of varying types and worth. It's not Harvard -- that's fine (for me). The academic standards are hard to discern (in English), but it's graduates are eligible for licensure as doctors nurses vets psychologists and lawyers in Nicaragua, which eases my mind a little. What's more, looking round the net I can find at least a couple of doctors and professors in North America whose terminal degrees are from this place, so I assume it's degrees have some utility. Apparently it will also pass equivalency tests for Britain. Of particular importance to me, it's the right price.

On the negative side, it seems to engage in many many partnerships, some of which are fine, others... Well... We all know what happened to the university of Wales.

Should I trust this university? My degree is for personal reasons, but I would still like it to have some utility -- who knows where I'll be in 10 years time? Will a PhD from this place make me look like fool or is it acceptable? I think LaFearney did a PhD here. If you're reading man, how's it working out for you?

What do the rest of you think? Worth looking at for a guy with no cash but who wants at least some utility from his degree?

 

If you've read through all the info we have generated on this school and you are still uncertain if it's a good bet, that alone should tell you something.

 

If your interest is for personal reasons then I think you will be fine. The Universidad Central de Nicaragua - Central University of Nicaragua is listed among accredited universities in Nicaragua. A degree from there has legal validity and standing.

Are you seeking to do more with the credential than you are stating here? What "utility" do you desire?

There are all kinds of levels of schools. To the Harvard University crowd a graduate of Southwestern Oklahoma State University "might" look like a "fool". To the Southwestern Oklahoma State University crowd, a graduate of the University of Phoenix "might" look like a "fool". To the University of Phoenix crowd, a graduate of Devry University "might" look like a "fool". I could go on and on. The point is you will never be able to please everyone, so to me as long as the credential you want is valid and you are fine with it then have at it.

 

LOL. In which dictionary did you find that one? OMG.

 

Oh no, I typed up an incredibly long reply that I seem to have lost :-(

I'll be briefer this time. Apologies if I sound terse, I'm not.

Kizmet -- I actually didn't find much info. Just lots of opinions about the acceptance of a Latin American degree, from an unknown university, in North America (this doesn't particularly concern me, as I'm not in America and not planning to use it towards a job). I was hoping for info about academic standards, curricula and utility. I realise the reason this info isn't here is probably because people don't have it. That's fine, I was just trying to get a shortcut on the research.

My worries stem from 3 main points:

1st -- I disapprove of some of UCN's partnerships. Are they fake schools? Probably not. Questionable? I think in a few cases, yes. Okay, UCN wouldn't be the only legit school to play a little free and easy, but it might be signs of further rot somewhere.

2nd -- I have no idea what Nicaragua and Nicaraguan's are like. I'm worried cultural differences will bias my evaluation of the uni. What should a legit Nicaraguan university look like anyway? Probably not like Kent, right?

3rd -- I don't speak Spanish. This means all my info is second hand from places like this forum and the university's english-language marketing.

Since posting the other day, I've allayed my own fears slightly. I tracked down the university's newsletter from the last few years and put it through the ever-hilarious google translate. It's clearly a legitimately functioning university in Nicaragua. There are a load of photos over the years of the faculty graduating various classes, they recently finished building a new campus and are building a second campus this year. And they seem to engage in all the standard 'small legit uni' stuff -- they have a teaching partnership with some local hospital(s?) where various alumni are employed, they have articles about history research and publication that they've carried out, they have volunteers in local communities, sporting contests etc.

It also looks like they're making efforts to engage with the ongoing discussion about accreditation in Nicaragua. I'm not entirely sure what the score is over there, but scanning the net gives me the impression that the Nicaraguan's are in the early stages of improving their accreditation system. Google translate was particularly difficult to understand on this point, but I think it's trying to tell me that UCN is voluntarily joining this initiative. I always consider it a good sign when an institute pursues the highest accreditation available to it as a matter of course. But I may be being mislead by google translate. Can any native Spanish speakers contribute a better translation of this:

Las Autoridades de Universidad Central de Nicaragua (UCN),
el día jueves 08 de agosto a las 10:00 a.m. hicieron entrega del
Plan del Proceso de Autoevaluación Institucional a las
Autoridades del Consejo Nacional de Evaluación y Acreditación
(CNEA), en las ocinas ubicadas en la Vicepresidencia de la
República.
La Unidad Técnica de Autoevaluación de UCN, fue creada en el
mes de julio del año 2011 y desde entonces ha realizado labores
de sensibilización y pruebas pilotos para establecer de forma
integral todo el proceso de este Plan de Autoevaluación.
UCN, se fortalecerá a nivel académico e institucional con este
proceso

Kizmet, the reason I am so cautious is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of clarity about this institution (no one seems to know what the courses are like). And I'm aware how convincing diploma mills can be with a website and a bit of obfuscation in the (unnecessarily) confusing world of higher education. I don't have any money to spare, so cannot afford to get ripped off.

Novadar, that's a good point -- thanks for putting it simply.

Steve, ha that's a great definition man. Truer words spoke in jest, and all that. As above, my budget ATM is basically nil. But, I can scrimp and save and get a bit together. To answer your questions: the reason I want a degree is basically personal fulfilment. I enjoy bettering myself, and enjoy having goals, assessments set by others. I finished an M.A in Social sciences about 5 years ago at Cardiff, and always told myself I'd get a phd eventually. But, life. So I have a job I love writing for our local paper and doing freelance stuff nationally. It pays the bills and gives me plenty of time to write all the other stuff I want (short stories, academic papers). I don't plan to use the degree to look for work, but in the unlikely eventuality that I should lose my job or the paper should fold, I don't want to wind up with a doctorate I can't put on my C.V. Also, I am an independent scholar -- if I were ever to write and publish a book (I've been thinking of doing this recently) I don't want to find myself in the same position as 'Dr' John Grey from Mars and Venus fame.

So, why UCN? Well, I know they're flexible. I have 5 peer reviewed publications that I'd like to put towards a phd by published works, and I think they let you work with them to make up any shortfall in research (should you not quite meet the amount of published work necessary). I'm not sure that I do. I think a few UK uni's offer a similar thing, but (because I live on a small island off the south coast that is not, technically, considered England) I would pay overseas fees. Which means I'd be looking at tens of thousands (of £s, not $s!), potentially. I think UCN will let me do it for a few grand. Although I make a decent wage, I'm not a millionaire by any means (one of the probs in loving your job) and as my wife just lost her job and we're only a few months away from having a baby, I can't afford more than that.

I've decided to phone NARIC tomorrow (I think these people are our version of your NACES [or WES? or AACCRO?] but I'm not entirely sure on their role) and ask them flat out: 'Is this university considered legit, and are its degrees acceptable in the UK?' If any of you here have any idea what I should ask them, or even what they do and how to approach them, it would be really appreciated -- I am totally winging it here.

 

For what it's worth, UCN now seems to appear in the WES degree equivalency free credential evaluator (try it out here: https://www.wes.org/preliminary/idp.asp)

I assume this means that WES recognises the university and degrees issued from it? I think Laferney wrote elsewhere that another NACES member does too, so may be the case.

 

I live in Nicaragua and I can tell you it is a legit school here. Like you said, it is no Harvard, but it is legit nevertheless. Mods my IP reads Miami, FL because I'm in Miami for a conference. However, I do live in Nicaragua.

 

There seems to some proof that this school is legit - and a growing pile of evidence that its degrees may have significant acceptance and the school is working hard to achieve even further recognition. I have nothing adverse to say about the school itself or recognition its degrees. Nevertheless, I can't say I really understand why it felt it needed to get ASIC accreditation. Then again, Universidad Azteca, a private Mexican University with which UCN is somewhat linked, in its validation portfolio, is another ASIC school. Oh well, maybe great minds think alike or something -- I dunno. :question: :question:

Johann

 

Yes, it might. Maybe they should read this 2009 article. The reason I've quoted it in entirety is that although it's still available from The Times, it's behind a paywall. It's quoted numerous other places, so I pinched it from another forum.

"Man given job of closing bogus colleges was sacked by university

Andrew Norfolk
From The Times
June 29, 2009

A company awarded an important role in the Governments attempt to shut down hundreds of bogus colleges is run by a man who was dismissed from his post at a university, The Times has discovered.

Maurice Dimmock is the director and chief executive of an organisation that inspects and accredits private colleges which want to admit foreign students. The Accreditation Service for International Colleges (ASIC) has given 180 institutions the stamp of approval since he set it up in 2007.

Among them is a Manchester college that The Times exposed last month as the front for an immigration scam which helped 1,000 fake students to enter or stay in Britain.

Another, in London, issued more than 2,500 bogus postgraduate diplomas in two months last year, earning its owners who have fled the country an estimated 5 million.

The head office of ASIC, one of seven government-approved accreditation bodies, is a semi-detached house in a village near Middlesbrough. The company has five staff. Its directors are Mr Dimmock, 59, and his wife, Margaret, 52. The company secretary is her 78-year-old father.

Until 2003 Mr Dimmock was the director of international operations at Northumbria University, with responsibility for overseas students. He and the university have refused to discuss why his employment was terminated, but The Times has established that the Home Office received, and ignored, concerns about ASIC and Mr Dimmock before it granted the company a contract.Northumbria University wrote to the Home Office in May 2007 to question the role the company was about to be given in distinguishing between genuine and bogus colleges. Two months later Universities UK, representing Britains 133 universities, wrote to Liam Byrne, the Immigration Minister, to express concern about the decision to approve ASIC as one of the accreditation bodies within the new immigration system.

In a letter to the Home Affairs Select Committee, which has responded to articles in The Times by holding an inquiry into bogus colleges, Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe, chief executive of Universities UK, raised further doubts about ASIC. She said: There is a lack of information and transparency about (ASICs) management, governance and financial structures. Several of the colleges that it accredits have been associated with inappropriate activities.

In November, ASIC accredited Kings College of Management, Manchester, which claimed to have 67 students. The Times disclosed last month that it had enrolled 1,178 foreigners and was offering places to another 1,575. Individuals at the college were selling diplomas and faking attendance records to fool the authorities into granting students leave to stay in Britain.

Mr Dimmock told The Times that ASIC had rejected 15 of the 195 colleges that it had inspected, including Manchester College of Professional Studies. It claimed to have 50 students, but secretly enrolled 1,797, including 8 of the 10 Pakistani citizens arrested in April for suspected involvement in an al-Qaeda terror plot.

Mr Dimmock said that ASIC used 25 inspectors, many of them former university professors experienced in international education. Their attempts to separate genuine colleges from those involved in immigration fraud were hampered, he said, by the Home Offices refusal to tell ASIC how many student visas were issued for each college it inspects. We dont see ourselves purely as acting as policemen. We are there to identify those colleges which are genuine, as far as we can see, he said.

A UK Border Agency spokesman confirmed that concerns about ASIC had been passed to the Home Office, but said that the Home Office relied on the recommendations of Ofsted in determining which accreditation bodies should receive contracts.

An Ofsted spokewoman said that it had assessed ASIC before it became an approved accreditation body in 2007 and was satisfied that it was operating in a satisfactory manner.

There is no suggestion that most of the 180 colleges accredited by ASIC are linked to immigration scams."

ASIC has since morphed into an "accreditor" of schools in quiet a few nations - from VietNam to the USA.

Johann

 

As I said before, I have nothing adverse to say about Universidad Central de Nicaragua or its degrees. I would caution, however, that the optics of its cross-validation schemes are not always good. Kizmet once said that "if you play in the mud, you're going to get sticky." Universidad Central de Nicaragua appears to work VERY closely with both Universidad Azteca and University of Northwest Europe. I don't think these two schools enjoy the same level of recognition that UCN does. All three are ASIC-accredited, in addition to whatever recognition they have in their home country. Azteca is a private University, registered as such in Mexico, and UNE does not have mainstream standing in its home country.

Azteca is also "accredited" by the AAHEA, that is not US-recognized as an American Regional or National Accreditor. Here's their "certificate".

http://www.universidadazteca.net/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/UA_Certificate_Instit_Validation.343181053.pdf

You'll note it's signed by Dr. Stephen Barnhart, whose many connections with unaccredited schools are well-documented in this and other fora.
One of the threads is here: http://www.degreeinfo.com/accreditation-discussions-ra-detc-state-approval-unaccredited-schools/16115-col-dr-dr-dr-stephen-r-barnhart.html

It is also signed by Dr. Christopher Campbell, formerly a "professor" at the infamous "St. Regis U." and veteran of other unaccredited schools.
Lots of info on him here: http://www.degreeinfo.com/accreditation-discussions-ra-detc-state-approval-unaccredited-schools/22807-comes-now-kingdom-college-guam-russia.html

Nope - although everything appears good with Universidad Central de Nicaragua, I can't say I like their playing with the other kids in their closely-held sandbox!

Johann

 

I missed one point: ASIC started in the UK as an "accreditor" of non-degree-granting schools. Now it's international, ASIC suddenly accredits schools offering degrees up to the Doctoral level! :sad:

Johann

 

The ASIC topic related to UCN is much ado about the periphery -- in other words it's a red herring. Unlike many schools that solely claim ASIC "accreditation", Universidad Central de Nicaragua has valid accreditation in Nicaragua through the Consejo Nacional de Universidades (CNU). They are certainly not trying to run immigration scams within the UK like the schools mentioned in the article pasted by Johann. The school really does exist in Nicaragua, thanks Koolcypher, and it produces Doctors of Medicine, Lawyers, and so on.

I have personally confirmed with two NACES agencies that they have granted equivalency to PhDs from this institution in the past or have said that it "holds a valid accreditation in Nicaragua so a degree from it could be granted equivalency". Disclosure - I am very seriously looking at this institution as well, so I have done my homework. Mike LaFerney openly lists this credential on his Social Pscyhology Network homepage, as do handful of other Professors/Instructors at institutions in the United States.

These details satisfy me -- especially the responses from the CEO and Director level staff at two NACES member organizations.

Finally aside from the PhD by Publication route they also offer the PhD by Research a la a "big book thesis" in the UK/South Africa mode. This appeals to me greatly. As I stated above, it's not Harvard, that's fine with me. Is it legal and equivalent to a PhD done in the US? Yes. Is it rigorous? Not sure, but it seems to be. Will it meet my personal requirements? Yes -- frankly that is all that matters, I don't need "validation" from anyone else other than validation of legal standing. If I didn't need that there are a variety of diploma mills that would fit the bill.

I am posting this just to help out the community.

Good luck with your decision JDG, PM me if you want to converse in detail off the thread.

 

This subject is always about two things: tangible recognition and optics.

Tangible recognition can take many forms. Degrees from English-speaking countries with robust university systems--assuming the degrees come from one of their recognized schools--are almost always good-to-go. Degrees from non-English-speaking countries with robust university systems are usually fine as-is, but language is sometimes a barrier that needs to be overcome. Sometimes.

Then there's the rest. When you start asking hiring managers in the U.S. to consider degrees from places like India, Nicaragua, and elsewhere, it gets more sticky. That's when a good credential evaluation can really come in handy.

Oh, let's not forget the I-don't-know-what-I'm-looking-at-so-I-accept-everything factor in HR. It helps, even though it is also the main source of diploma mill success.

But the other aspect of optics is related to that last factor. Some HR departments aren't even going to consider something they think is "weird," even if it is legitimate. So sad, but so true. Sorry. In other words, such a degree-holder might get screened out of opportunities before he/she has even been given the chance to make the case.

Go get your degree and stand proud. If they don't want you, you don't want them.

 

Can't argue with that. Knowledgeable people have vouched for UCN and it's obviously credible. I think I said that 2x before.

Certainly, UCN has fine credibility without ASIC and if you consider ASIC a red herring - OK.

My personal "red flag" issue with ASIC is not about its original function in the UK. It's the morphing into an "international accreditor" of degree-granting schools - and issues with some of the other schools, not mentioned herein, that it has accredited.

Perhaps the very close association established between UCN, Azteca and U. of Northwest Europe will help those latter two schools to achieve ever higher standards. I hope so.

Johann

 

Johann, I don't like the ASIC thing either. I think Steve probably has a point about the accreditation looking good to the uninitiated. There are legit places on the international list (amongst the less-than-wonderfulls), which makes me think it's the type of thing that gets picked up by schools in countries with less rigorous educational demands. Or schools that think it's a backdoor into degree acceptance in the UK. I have no idea whether it is or not, NARIC are the people for that.

Ultimately, like Novadar, I consider the ASIC stuff to be of minor importance. I carried on looking around and as far as I can tell, a new accreditation body called CNEA will fill the void of legit accreditation in Nicaragua, which UCN has recently signed up to and started working towards. For me, that's the important accreditation discussion.

Regarding NARIC, I still haven't called them. Family got in the way. But I'll give them a shout tomorrow, to confirm that UCN's degrees are considered equivalent to UK degrees. Although it is a bank holiday, so there's a chance I'll get no answer.

Rich, that's a good point man. I was talking to an American professor last night about a journal submission, and he mentioned that his PhD from Warwick was a real stumbling block in the states for a while. Admittedly, this would have been some time ago (the guy's 70) but Warwick (for anyone who doesn't know) is a world class uni -- it's one of only 3 in the UK (along with Cambridge and Oxford) that has NEVER been ranked outside of the top 10 in the country. But the people looking over his C.V just saw a fruity English university whose name they didn't recognise. In the end, he got around it because his PhD was in business, and they had the right program based international accreditation -- he just had to start putting it on his C.V next to the degree.

Given that I have no aspirations to work in Education, this is of less importance to me. I just want the degree to be legal, legitimate, and acceptable. It doesn't, particularly, need to be recognised in the UK, as long as it deserves to be (if that makes sense).

 

Please do share what you find from NARIC. My feelings are exactly like yours: for it to be legal, legitimate and acceptable. I believe I have enough evidence of that in the US, to hear the same from the UK would be as you might (or might not put it) jolly good.