Is ITT Tech screwing over students?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by TCord1964, Mar 19, 2014.

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  1. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    Interesting read, and some possible trouble for ITT Tech ahead.

    Is ITT Tech screwing over students? | The Verge
     
  2. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Their 3-year official Cohort Default Rate (which is available at the US Dept. of Education's "College Navigator" site) is 29.2%. In other words, 29% of students who left ITT Tech schools in 2010 were in default on their student loans three years later (by 2013).

    In absolute numbers, there were 11,711 former ITT Tech students in default. And that's just from one year, 2010. And of course, when students default on their government-backed loans, the taxpayers (not the school) pick up the tab.

    The final quote in the original story sums it up:

    But hey, aside from those points, it's a great school.
     
  3. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    I really find it hard to justify the argument that ITT isn't predatory.
     
  4. lawrenceq

    lawrenceq Member

    ITT Tech came to my high school my senior year (1997) and showed me some nice videos. I gave them my contact information and they called me every day. No matter what I told them they still called.
     
  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards Member

    Yep. However I have met some smart folks in the work force with ITT credentials.
     
  6. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    In the interest of full disclosure, I should note I came THIS close to working at ITT Tech as a recruiter. I had accepted the job and was given a start date. However, my current job gave me a big raise to stay put, which I accepted.

    I have to say the folks at ITT were very nice and stressed the importance of being ethical, pointing out that credits probably won't transfer and taking an interest in the success of the students. They told me that paying bonuses based on the number of students recruited is illegal, but there were pay raises for good performance. They told me they are a vocational training institution, and that is what separates them from other colleges. They consider DeVry to be their competition, not traditional B&M schools.

    I'm not sure that ITT is "screwing" students, but I do think students need to do their homework, research how much any school is really charging them, and what their job prospects are after they graduate. After all, there are students graduating state colleges and universities with six figures in debt and few job prospects.
     
  7. jam937

    jam937 New Member

    I think it's as simple as targeting individuals who fail to do their due diligence for whatever reason. Nobody forced students to attend ITT.

    This problem is never going to be solved until the focus shifts from the schools to the government regulations. I don't mean make it harder for the for-proft schools. I mean make it harder for students to obtain government loans.

    • Require some skin in the game. No 100% loans. It didn't work in real estate and it won't in student loans.
    • Require some level readiness or skill assessment. If you can't pass 9th grade reading and math then no loans.
    • All refunds go back to the government and not the student. This will weed out tens of thousands of fake students.
    • Only Invest in students who show skill and/or effort.
    • Set loan limits based on fields of study (make good investments)
     
  8. jam937

    jam937 New Member

    I think most of us would be amazed to know how much student loan money is going for non-tuition items. It is so common anymore. I wish I could find some official stats.

     
  9. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I agree with you in that student loans are often being used to pay for living expenses. This isn't against the law; as a matter of fact, it's encouraged. However, many students do take out more than they need. They could also save on student loans if they live at home instead of in a dorm and/or work at least part-time.

    BUT, I wouldn't be surprised if ITT Tech students don't have the luxury of using leftover financial aid for living expenses. They often have to take out private loans because federal/state financial aid is not enough to cover ITT Tech's ridiculously high tuition rates. They are more expensive than the major, regionally-accredited, for-profit colleges. An associates degree earned through them will cost $45k to over $47k; a bachelor's will cost nearly $89k! Some of their bachelor's programs are nearly $100k at their New Mexico locations. Attending online will save you some money, but those tuition rates are also ridiculously high.
     
  10. jam937

    jam937 New Member

    I agree ITT is extremely expensive as are most for-profits. Only a fool would go to any of them as they offer nothing special that cannot be found elsewhere for half the cost. Apparently there are many fools as the big for-profits have a combined enrollment of over 500,000.

    Here some examples of costs of a bachelor's degree with no starting credit and assuming all credits taken at schools. This does not include developmental courses or re-takes.

    ITT $80,000
    DeVry $74,250
    Kaplan $66,780
    Strayer $63,700
    Phoenix $59,180

    Thomas Edison, in-state $28,900
    (New Jersey)

    Community College + State School = $29,000
    (Ohio, in-state tuition)
     
  11. expat_eric

    expat_eric New Member

    For what it is worth, my company actively recruits from ITT for our field personnel. We find that the graduates tend to be more flexible with regards to being away from home for long periods of time and they are generally successful. We have many that have advanced their careers within the company. I am not saying it is worth the tuition price, but we do find that it is a good place for us to recruit the staff we need. I don't think it is fair to bash the school when there is some utility from the degree.
     
  12. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

  13. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    From that video, it sounds like ITT Tech wasn't upfront about the fact that federal financial aid is not enough to cover their absurd tuition rates. I already knew that ITT Tech's students often end up taking out a high interest rate private loan, but that's because I did some digging.

    When students go into $100k in debt for an undergraduate degree, they have to remember that the federal caps do not allow for this much debt. Much of that debt is coming from bank loans or loans directly from the school.
     
  14. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards Member

    Other than top schools where part of what you are getting is access to their alumni network, I doubt 99% of educations costs are truly worth it. That said, ITT is a bad actor in this industry for sure.
     
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    The data on how much the average worker with a high school diploma makes relative to how much the average worker with a Bachelor's degree makes don't support your statement.
     
  16. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    I think a more accurate statement is the quality of the education one receives is not always equal to what they pay for it, no matter where they get it. Students must do their homework to determine where they will get the most return on investment. Frankly, I would never take out loans in the high five figures to six figures for education from any school.
     
  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

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