MBA-Regenesys Business School (Johannesburg, South Africa)

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by sessue, Oct 16, 2013.

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  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I don't agree. AACSB offers membership. Regenesys is a member. Regenesys says they're a member, by which they're telling the truth. AACSB has no problem with this and they're the ones with the most to lose. So why should anyone else?
     
  2. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    But are they telling the whole truth? The whole truth, as stated (in bold font) by AACSB itself, is that:

    If unaccredited AACSB member schools include the same disclosure, then no one will have a problem. But in practice, unaccredited AACSB member schools often seem to omit this disclosure. Some people find this lack of transparency to be troubling, on the grounds that other people may be confused about the difference between "AACSB membership" and "AACSB accreditation".

    This concern is not limited to posters on degreeinfo. For example, the University of Missouri - St. Louis (which is AACSB accredited) has posted the following info:

    UMSL states that they posted this info because they "frequently receive questions about accreditation". The implication is that many of their prospective students are confused about accreditation issues. And that certainly seems plausible, given that degreeinfo frequently receives questions about accreditation too. Maybe more transparency would help.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2013
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If this is such a big problem, why doesn't AACSB add additional specifically-worded disclosure requirements to the membership agreement? They could do so easily.
     
  4. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    They do. The following policy is clearly posted on the AACSB website:

    It seems rather obvious that Regenesys lists its AACSB membership in proximity to and in conjunction with statements of other accreditations, under the heading: "Accreditation, Registration and Membership Status". One might reasonably question whether this is compliant with the AACSB policy, which further states:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2013
  5. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I should emphasize that there is nothing inherently problematic about being a non-accredited member of AACSB. But to prevent inadvertent (or deliberate) confusion, schools with this status should use the specifically-worded language provided by AACSB:

    Full disclosure and transparency are good.
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Fair enough, that's different. Then the only real question is why AACSB isn't enforcing their own rule.
     
  7. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I would be surprised if AACSB makes any attempt to monitor, approve, or police all of the promotional material, whether printed or electronic, produced by its approximately 1,200 member institutions. And if that is the case, then I wouldn't expect AACSB to be aware of any potential issues, unless someone specifically complains about a particular item and brings it to their attention. And if that is the case, then I wouldn't expect little-known schools, operating in places where AACSB itself has a limited profile, to attract much attention or scrutiny.
     
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'm glad you see it that way, Steve. I was away from the Net and this board - and I thank CalDog for explaining it so well. That was my objection -- that there was no disclaimer to differentiate between membership and accreditation - as I think there should be.

    Also, I agree this is not very well-policed by AACSB, especially in places far from their home. I'm not blaming them -- but it might be to AACSB's advantage to increase their vigilance in this regard, in the interest of their "brand name."

    First Burberry - then Louis Vuitton - we don't want AACSB to be next! :smile:

    Johann
     
  9. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    Ascsb sell memberships because it is an easy income generator. In exchange, universities and businesses can advertised being a member, which they do. also they get used the aacsb logo. This business is not doing anything difference from what all members are doing. It may be even more in compliance because it has more than just a logo. It clearly mentioned membership.
    It is condescending to think South Africa education should come cheap otherwise it is not work pursuing. South Africa has been generous in having foreigners access to its heavily subsidised education. S.A has 4 universities in the top 500 in the world and about half in the top 1000s. S.A have a handful of universities.
    UCT is now charging us$32k for its MBA - it should be a lot more. SAT has been trying to increase it rate. Why should Africa be exploited again? Maybe aacsb should focus only on accreditation and stop selling membership.
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sure it does. (AACSB.) And that's not always a good idea for the "brand". Look at USDLA. They've sold memberships to complete mills operating out far-flung countries, e.g. Pakistan. Bad schools openly flaunt the USDLA seal as "accreditation." Many very good schools also have USDLA membership. If the good schools see all these mills on the roster, maybe that will be bad - or even disastrous - at some point, for USDLA.

    True - in spades, all of it. And it's not only been cheap -- it's VERY GOOD. SA's generosity, that you mentioned, is the other major factor besides depressed currency that has kept fees low and I'm convinced it's low cost + high quality that has induced so many outside SA to undertake distance education there. It's not "exploitation" as you called it. SA wants the business. It just makes sense.

    I'm not suggesting that "if it's not cheap it's not worth pursuing." I do believe that Regenesys' MBA program is relatively expensive - in South African terms and a better deal can be had there, from good schools. I'm convinced the decision to earn an MBA can be considered a business decision. Price is an important factor in such decisions. It's not the only factor, of course. Quality is even more important.

    If one can get the desired quality for less.. . in the same country or elsewhere ... again, it just makes sense, doesn't it?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2013
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Let's re-phrase that. The South African Government has been generous to its schools by giving them subsidies for foreign distance students. The more the school enrols - the more money it gets.

    That's unheard of elsewhere, as far as I know. But it's not wrong for foreign students to avail themselves of this Government generosity. The schools want their business. Distance Ed. has become a big, rewarding industry. Nobody's "exploiting South Africa" any more than the schools are "exploiting" their own Government.

    Johann
     
  12. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I agree with all of this, except for referring to Pakistan as far-flung, since demographically speaking it's North America, not South Asia that deserves that appellation.

    I agree. There's nothing stopping South Africans from declining applications from foreigners. That they accept them means they must want to accept them.

    It does, but that depends on what one's goals are. One might seek to complete a program through a university in a particular country specifically to foster connections within that country. The immediate ROI wouldn't be the deciding factor in that sort of situation.
     
  13. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    No Johann, you have it wrong. I will advise anyone to avail them-self on the generous offer by South African universities. You on the other hand think that South African Universities are not worth pursuing unless it is cheap. Two different things. However, you will advise to pay more for another countries education which be more expensive but of less quality. This is where you are to trying to exploit African.
    =
    Regenseys is a member of AACSB. They advertised as such. So is every every other member. Have you think the issues is AACSB which has a zero lowest common denominator for membership?
     
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Johann can speak for himself, but personally I think you've mischaracterized his position here.

    Either way, though, even if someone were advising people to avoid South African schools in favor of more expensive schools in other countries, I don't see how that would be "exploiting Africans". That's like saying that someone who advises people to avoid the University of London in favor of the University of Phoenix is exploiting the British.
     
  15. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    This's the problem with degree info - many (not all) cultural insensitivity. Your defense is perfectly in support for the exploitation of Africa . if you were not trying to defend the status quo here, then the example with be advising going from Regenseys (Africa) to Phoenix_ not because of quality but because of not getting an exploitative tuition rate. UOL is not in Africa.
     
  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Sometimes that's happened here, as it does on any forum. But that's not what's happening here now and to suggest that it is is needlessly insulting.

    That's a strong, controversial claim you've made twice now, without justifying it either time. That's even more the case because Africa is a huge place with a billion people on it, most of whom have nothing to do with South Africa.

    I'm not sure what your definition of the status quo is here. Personally, I love the idea of attending a South Africa school and saving a lot of money while earning a degree of comparable quality. I'm just saying that "exploit" means something specific, and if someone gives the advice to avoid them, then while that's bad advice, it's not "exploiting Africans".

    By the way, I'm aware that the University of London isn't in Africa, that was actually my whole point, which I believe you missed entirely.
     
  17. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    My apology to Johann, exploit was not a wise choice of word.
     
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    That's OK. I have skin like a wino - I mean rhino, from years here. :smile:

    As to your suggestion that I feel South African education is "not worth pursuing unless it's cheap" -- that's wrong. Completely wrong.

    Yes, it is is one of the few places where you can get more than you pay for, educationally speaking. Its schools have educated and produced fine scholars and professionals in many disciplines, both at home and abroad. It is first and foremost a country of quality education. The fact that it is largely inexpensive is an added inducement - and has enabled many to get an education of quality that they could not otherwise have afforded. My comment was only directed towards Regenesys; I believe that there is better value for the money - in and outside South Africa - than that particular school. Just my considered opinion.

    As to exploitation - how could undertaking education in South Africa be exploitation? Am I exploiting Japan if I buy a Toyota? :smile: This is not Bangladesh-made clothes we're talking about! South African professors aren't paid slave-wages or made to work in sweatshop conditions, etc. If they were, or if we were taking educational opportunities away from South Africans (and we're not) -- that would be exploitation.

    Enrolling at a South African school is no more exploitation than Dr. John Bear's trips to Sweden. He has gone there at least twice AFAIK -- and he comes back home with a new Volvo at a good price, after a holiday. I think it's a package deal - I'm not sure. Is Dr. Bear exploiting Sweden? No, he's not. It's just good business, for all concerned. (And, I imagine, a darn nice family holiday.)

    I don't hold an MBA, but I did take half a dozen business courses at University, after working in the business world for 30 years. I think I know in general terms how business works - and the difference(s) between legitimate business and exploitation.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2013
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'm having a little trouble with the grammar and sentence structure of that question -- but here goes...

    I have no idea of AACSB's exact standards for membership. I presume AACSB makes sure the prospective member school has - at the very least - legitimate degree-granting authority, because I have never seen its logo on a degree mill, as I have with some other well-known organizations, e.g. USDLA. I know AACSB has extremely high standards for program accreditation. My objection is to any school that tends in any way to puff its AACSB (or ACBSP, or USDLA, or other) membership into - or almost into - the guise of accreditation. Regenesys puts its AACSB info on the accreditation page; it doesn't say it's accredited by AACSB - and it doesn't say it's not. As I see it, a slight suggestion is there.

    Someone (I think it was Steve) said that it's doubtful AACSB would - or really could - police this kind of thing, so I commented that maybe they should consider trying, in light of what has happened to other organizations, e.g. the awful misuse of membership-status-morphing-into-accreditation by low-or-no-quality USDLA member schools.

    Perhaps I exaggerated the danger, as AACSB is not USDLA. USDLA has many very good schools as members - and a handful (at least) of bad ones. I'm not suggesting AACSB has any "bad" members - certainly not Regenesys - but that I object to the way that school's AACSB membership info is displayed in prominent conjunction with its accreditation; I feel there should be a clear disclaimer - and there is not.

    I hope I have interpreted your question properly.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2013
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    No -- it was CalDog. Sorry. CalDog also quoted AACSB's guideline that says unaccredited (by AACSB) members shouldn't display their membership status in close proximity to their accreditation info -- and that's exactly what Regenesys has done.

    My whole point. :sad:

    Johann
     
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