Ed.S, DBA, or CAGS for undergraduate teaching?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by icecom3, Feb 27, 2013.

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  1. icecom3

    icecom3 New Member

    I am having trouble deciding on which route to go. Any advice or philosophy is welcome.

    Goal: Teach an occasional undergraduate college course online, but not pursue any executive level positions or permanent tenure.

    Problem: Cost of ownership versus income

    Currently I hold an MA in psychology, and an MA in organizational management & leadership. I want to teach organizational development/behavior/management to undergraduates online.

    I want to continue, but I am worrying that the cost of all this will not match the income that teaching will bring. I don't expect to get any high paying tenure with my online degrees, so I will probably teach online.

    Should I pursue a DBA program, which will cost me another 40-60k on-top of my already huge school debt? Some concerns I have is being over qualified for most jobs out there, and having to compete for senior/executive positions everywhere. However, I know that having a DBA can open doors.

    Should I pursue a Ed.S, which is also a terminal degree for education, but costs about half as much as a DBA? I like the idea of complimenting my core knowledge and skills with an Ed.S in teaching. Its sounds good on paper, however I worry that adjuncts with masters degrees + more graduate work in my field may have the upper hand. Which brings me to my next question.

    Should I simply continue my graduate learning, taking courses here and there to meet or exceed the required 18 credit hours per learning topic? Maybe even graduate certificates or CAGS? My worry here is, will MAs still be able to teach online in 10 years, or will the massive flux of online phds kill that possibility?
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Online teaching pays poorly, and the competition is fierce, especially in fields like psychology. I'm not sure I'd pursue any degree program for that specific purpose. 18 graduate hours in accounting, statistics, or finance at the least expensive regionally accredited school you can find, however, might offer decent ROI.
     
  3. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    You might want to take a look at the online PhD in Leadership from Johnson University. The program is about $25k.
     
  4. icecom3

    icecom3 New Member

    Very interesting, I see that there is an overwhelming emphasis on theology in this leadership program, but I guess there is nothing wrong with that.
    I'm trying to figure out why financial aid is not listed as an option for this program, but anyway thanks for the suggestion.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    If you want the DBA just to teach on the side, I would go for one of the South African options. UNISA offers a DBL (Doctor of Business Leadership) that might suit your needs in terms of price and utility.

    For online teaching as an adjunct, there is no need to have a fancy degree but just something that can be recognized as equivalent to an RA degree and I think UNISA fits the bill.

    A CAGS or EDs is not going to help much, most schools prefer a doctorate mainly because of accreditation reasons.

    If you want a shot for a tenure track, then you would need to finish your DBA from a school that has AACSB accreditation. There are many AACSB accredited schools that offer DL DBAs such as University of Liverpool, University of Manchester, etc. Any of these schools would be respected enough to give you a shot to a tenure track.

    The other issue to consider is flexibility and time commitments. Although the British options are stronger, they require more time commitment and if the purpose is just to teach on the side, it might not be worth it.

    The online for profit options are better in terms of flexibility and time commitments, they are made for people with heavy schedules so they are meant to be finished in shorter periods of time with more flexibility. At least at Walden, the DBAs are meant to be finished in 3 years while you work, the British options require not less than 5 years.

    There is no easy answer to your question. If you want fast and flexible, the online for profit is the answer but at a high price. If you want cheap but hard and lower recognition, the UNISA option might be the answer. If you want high recognition but don't mind expensive and time demanding, then the British options from top schools are the answer.

    As for being over qualified, you don't have to disclose your DBA to your prospect employer. I would turn it off or on from my resume depending on the job. If you are already in a company that is advertising for a CEO, then I will turn it on when sending my application for this position. If you are just applying to your average middle manager position at a no name company, I would turn it off. The nice thing about DL doctorates is that you don't need to explain time gaps in your resume if you decide to delete them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2013
  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    It's not my area of expertise but if you can't get a teaching job with 2 Masters degrees then an EdS or a CAGS isn't going to help much. After that, my question to you would be, are you really going to spend years and thousands of dollars to get a doctoral degree that may or may not get you a poorly paying part-time job? How many years will you have to work at that part-time job just to break even? I suggest that you drag out your calculator and crunch some numbers.
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I don't know about finance or stats, but in accounting is not very likely that someone with a masters in psychology and another one in organizational management is going to land an accounting teaching gig just because it shows 18 graduate credits in accounting.
    Most schools would want to see a CPA or CMA on top of the 18 credits and some work experience in the field.
    However, I agree that getting a CMA and the 18 graduate credit in accounting is a lot cheaper and easier than getting a DBA and probably more effective for getting teaching work in the short term.
    Other certifications that are good sellers for adjunct work are PMP and CFA.

    The risk of going in this direction is that eventually every field gets saturated and you would need a doctorate at some point to keep getting adjunct work.

    It used to be that in accounting a lot schools just needed a CPA and an MBA for adjunct work but recently I have seen a lot of adjunct gigs requiring a DBA or PhD in Accounting.

    Like it or not, as more doctorates become available online, it will get to a point when all the schools would require a doctorate just to teach an online class.
     
  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I know we have discussed this issue many times in the past but the reality is that many of the online doctoral students do these programs with the main objective of becoming adjuncts.

    The idea of having a job that you can do from home and that allows you to travel the world is very appealing to a lot of people.

    I attend to few conferences every year for online adjuncts and I am amazed at the number of people that make careers from online teaching.
    Some people are even doing second doctorates just so they can qualify to teach more subjects.
     
  9. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    You can't sit for the CPA without a few years of experience anyway, is that correct? Picking up a CPA is more of a committment to a career then picking up a PMP. Projects can touch any field.
     
  10. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I know you're right band I also know that there are thousands of people around the world who spend their time and money gambling in casinos. A few of them even win on occasion.
     
  11. managerial0550

    managerial0550 New Member

    I think with the influx of schools and degrees out there..right now a master's degree is the new bachelors..i think u are spot on that a DBA will help you more plus u could possibly become fulltime/tenured

    Northcentral's DBA is 18 classes..yes ranges in the mid 40's for price but you can complete the degree fast..u can take 2 classes a time or even possible more if you get deans approval...I wouldn't personally go with the CAGS or EDS...not that they are worthless but the EDS is not a doctoral degree
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    CPA is not an easy one to get, not worth it if your intention is just to teach few classes on the side. The CMA is easier to get and work experience doesn't have to be in a CPA firm.
    Some accounting adjuncts do the CFE also, not so hard to get and in high demand.
    Walden has now few Post doctoral and post masters certificate in Accounting for people wanting to teach in this field.
     
  13. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Here is the link
    Post-Doctoral Bridge to Business Administration Certificate

    The program looks flexible enough and courses don't look complex. It is expensive and although is meant to train people to teach accounting, it is too weak in content so my guess is that an employer would still prefer a M.S in Accounting with a CPA or CMA. However, it has the "doctor" title so maybe some employers would be willing to take it as a DBA in Accounting if your PhD or DBA is not in accounting.
     
  15. icecom3

    icecom3 New Member

    Unless I go the DBA path, I will probably not take any accounting courses.

    I prefer to stay in the arena of organizational management, organizational behavior, development, and organizational psychology.

    I am still amazed at how MBAs are teaching this stuff when they only have like 2 or 3 courses in that focus, and the rest is all finance, accounting, marketing...etc. I really hope to bump a couple of these number crunchers off the behavioral side of business teaching, and rightly so.
     
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    I think the reason why accounting is in demand is because is not so simple to find substitutes. Accounting is a technical field and you really need to learn how to crunch numbers and perform financial analysis.

    The problem with behavioral sciences is that you competition with people with degrees in psychology, behavioral sciences, human resources, etc. I hope you don't take this as an offense but there are plenty of PhDs in psychology teaching at community college level so it is not so easy to compete with the with only a MA.
    We recommend more quantitative fields because there are more opportunities in this area.
     
  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Yes that may all be true but I'm responding to what the op was actually saying about their personal goal, to teach an occasional college course, not to become a full-time adjunct. If the op was actually saying that they wanted to teach full-time and blah and blahblah then I might agree with you but under the conditions described by the op I'd say it might not be a wise choice.
     
  18. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    There are quite of few degreeinfo members that seem to be interested in doing a doctorate on the side in order to make extra revenue.

    I agree that the risks of losing money and time are high. Few things to consider, the number of people getting online doctorates in business in on the rise while the number of people getting online bachelor and masters degrees from online institutions seem to be in decline based on the decrease in enrollments experienced by for profit distance learning provider such as UoP.

    The risk of losing money with this decision is considerable and worth evaluating.

    There are many alternatives of making money on the side that are less risky such as getting a real estate evaluator license, CPA license, public notary license, etc.

    If the only motivation is to make money on the side, then I agree that doing a low tier online doctorate might not be worth it. If the OP wants to do it for personal improvement and learning then personal satisfaction might outweigh the risk of losses.
     
  19. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I agree with this. Also, I never want to discourage people from pursuing higher education, I only suggest that they adopt a realistic attitude about financial costs, time costs, relationship costs and ROI. If, in the end, they decide to go for it then I will always wish them the best of luck.
     
  20. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Thanks, now I see the specialty. Even with this, you would still only have 9 accounting credits which is not enough to teach.
    Completion Requirements
    •15 total semester credits •Foundation course (3 sem. cr.)
    •Core course (3 sem. cr.)
    •Specialization sequence (9 sem. cr.)


    Now this might just be me but wouldn't it seem odd if you did post-doc work in a field where you did not have a doctorate? Wouldn't it be more like post-doc course work? I have a PhD in Business Admin with a concentration in Management. I would assume (and I am careful when I assume) that I would only "really" be qualified for post-doc work in management.

    Is my view wrong?
     

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