Occupy Wall Street

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by ryoder, Oct 5, 2011.

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  1. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I agree with this quote. I have family in Europe, and have travelled to various parts of Europe. The Europeans views us as being in "decline", and I don't blame them. The bottom line is the US is in decline. I think Europeans wonder why" we the people" don't speak out more often. It has only been recently that people put the Frito Lays down and got up off the coach to go protest. I am in a unique position because I can see things from two perspectives. One I am an American (born here), and two, I am European (blood) as well. I do know that 10-15 years ago, I could travel like a king in Europe because I was taking and converting my American dollars at a high American conversion rate, to Europe. Now, the value of the dollar is pretty devalued in comparison. This tells Europeans a lot.

    Abner
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2011
  2. BobbyJim

    BobbyJim New Member

    putting the Lay's down?

    :confused:
    :wavey:

    You do mean the T.E.A. party, right?
     
  3. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    If they all ate carrot sticks instead of Fritos, the world would be a better place and there would be nothing to protest.
     
  4. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Oops! Mean to say get up off the couch, not coach. Yes, I do mean the T.E.A. party. Every single time I see them on the news, they are eating Frito Lay's along with cold tea. :smile:

    Abner :smile:
     
  5. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    NYC arrest records: Many Occupy Wall Street protesters live in luxury

    Many “Occupy Wall Street” protesters arrested in New York City “occupy” more luxurious homes than their “99 percent” rhetoric might suggest, a Daily Caller investigation has found.

    For each of the 984 Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested in New York City between September 18 and October 15, police collected and filed an information sheet recording the arrestee’s name, age, sex, criminal charge, home address and — in most cases — race. The Daily Caller has obtained all of this information from a source in the New York City government.

    Among addresses for which information is available, single-family homes listed on those police intake forms have a median value of $305,000 — a far higher number than the $185,400 median value of owner-occupied housing units in the United States.

    Some of the homes where “Occupy” arrestees reside, viewed through Google Maps and the Multiple Listing Service real estate database, are the definition of opulence.

    Using county assessors and online resources such as Zillow.com, TheDC estimated property values and rents for 87 percent of the homes and 59 percent of the apartments listed in the arrest records.

    Even in the nation’s currently depressed housing market, at least 95 of the protesters’ residences are worth approximately $500,000 or more. (RELATED SLIDESHOW: Opulent homes of the ’99 percent’)

    The median monthly rent for those living in apartments whose information is readily available is $1,850.

    Of the 984 protesters arrested, at least 797 are white. The median age of “Occupy” protesters taken into custody is 27 years.

    Ten demonstrators were arrested more than once. Most of the arrests, it should be noted, were for nonviolent offenses.

    The arrest intake documents show that arrestees came to New York from all over the country but particularly from the Northeast.

    Criminal charges ranged from “loitering while wearing a mask” and “failure to move along” to “violent behavior” and other more serious charges such as “assault 2 [second-degree assault] caus[ing] physical injury to police [or] firemen.” There was also one charge of “sex abuse 3 [third-degree].” Hundreds were arrested on October 1 for obstructing traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge.

    While it would not be fair to conclude that the arrested protesters are fully representative of a movement that is not completely understood, this information forms the most complete snapshot yet of the demonstrations’ more militant participants.

    It also reinforces the persistent critique of protesters as entitled, upper-class agitators with few legitimate grievances.

    London’s Daily Mail newspaper, for example, recently highlighted signs of wealth among the throngs in Zuccotti Park.

    “Sleeping beside the hardcore activists are increasing numbers of wealthy students turning up to make the most of the party atmosphere, drugs and free food,” reporters Paul Bentley and Micela McLucas wrote in October. “While they dress down to blend in, the youngsters’ privileged backgrounds are revealed by glimpses of expensive gadgetry or the absent minded mention of their private schools during heated political debates.”

    “I think that it’s accurate to say that our supporters come from all backgrounds,” Patrick Bruner, the operator of OccupyWallStreet.org, a website dedicated to help organize and spread information about the protests, told TheDC when asked about participants from wealthier backgrounds. “That said, a (non-random) survey on our site revealed that our visitors literally are the 99% in regards to economic realities.”

    The national median home value of $185,400 reflects U.S. Census statistics from the years 2005 through 2009, the last year data were available.

    TheDC was able to estimate home values and apartment rents for 659 of the 972 residences. Thirteen were in university dormitories; six were post office boxes; four were addresses in foreign countries. Many addresses proved to be nonexistent, and a few were not provided to police.
     
  6. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    So, which one is it? Are they slothful, unemployed losers who are a drain on society and therefore should not be taken seriously, or are they productive, well-off winners who benefit from the fruits of society and therefore should not be taken seriously?
     
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Comparing how much a home costs in New York City vs. the national median is misleading. A house that costs $305,000 in New York City is probably in a working class neighborhood, not Park Avenue. Besides, even if it were in a fashionable neighborhood, who's to say there aren't a bunch of roommates there sharing expenses?

    This is a non-story at best.
     
  8. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    "So, which one is it? Are they slothful, unemployed losers who are a drain on society and therefore should not be taken seriously, or are they productive, well-off winners who benefit from the fruits of society and therefore should not be taken seriously?"

    Some of them are unemployed by choice losers feigning "power to the people" and pretending be "po' folk" i.e. 99%'ers who happen go home at night and sleep in comfortable beds in their parents bourgeois urban dwellings.

    Thus they are disingenuous liars who STILL DO NOT HAVE A UNIFIED MESSAGE!!!!!!!!!

    Here's some 99% being offered jobs at the DC protest. Listen to the venom of the women in this video. Especially the one who says working for certain places will not pay the rent.

    LiveLeak.com - Two HR headhunters offer Jobs to Occupy Washington D.C.

    As someone who was laid off in 2008 and worked 3 jobs at time to support my family, including working at Wal-Mart, I find their attitudes disgusting and pathetic. You can snark all you want but a lot of these pricks ARE a drain on society. To good to work a minimum wage job? What skills do you have to offer someone who should pay you more?

    As late as this May I worked 2 jobs. 7 days a week, I worked last Christmas, New Years Day and did not have two consecutive days off for over 8 months. And then I have to hear from these asswipes?

    F**K these self-righteous little buggers.
     
  9. BobbyJim

    BobbyJim New Member


    "Caution! Coffee may be hot!"
     
  10. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  11. BobbyJim

    BobbyJim New Member

    They already have jobs! They are professional organizers and protesters!!!
     
  12. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    So the makers of this video show up with no apparent sanction officially from anyone, at a rally in Washington, D.C., with job application forms for companies like

    • Subway, where a job application is probably almost always available at any location currently hiring or taking applications, and this fact is known by every even basically literate and independently functioning adult; where they aren't saving anyone a single step, I guess giving them the chance to fill it out at their table instead of at a table in the Subway they'd have to walk it to, woohoo;

    • Fox News, where - credit where credit is due - thousands of highly qualified people, trained and experienced in the very specific skilled jobs that are all but a few of the jobs they hire for, would die to work; where the barriers to entry are going to be staggering for almost everyone chosen at random out of the general population, or on the street; and

    • SOLYNDRA, a company that very famously just COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN, and was based in California and probably had never more than a lobbying shop in the Washington area even before; where a job application is completely useless, an insulting waste of time.

    And they're videotaping everything.

    And they've kind of got an attitude about it.

    And if the people watching this spectacle don't take this all that seriously as a likely help in finding employment, they turn it around into a hatchet job on those people?

    The makers of this video are incredibly disrespectful. I'm a gentle sort but I can't help getting angry the more I think about this.

    They are smiling as they push application forms for a company on the other side of the country that famously just completely closed down.

    And if the people around them don't thank them for this valuable service and play along in the spectacle?

    Well then they're going to make the people around them look like losers and turn people on the Internet against their political platform. Ha freaking ha.

    What I'm really angry about that this has started to WORK with good people like Cory and BobbyJim, who should know better.

    It's profoundly insulting. It's one thing to use the tools of the hatchet job on some powerful interest, left or right, that could use a takedown.

    Pushing worthless applications for a dead company to people looking for work? And turning on them if they don't play along with you?

    If anyone these people spoke with is really hurting for a job right now, this stunt almost entirely constitutes kicking them while they are down.

    I DON'T LIKE KICKING PEOPLE WHILE THEY'RE DOWN.

    Gentle reader, I hope you don't either?

    Whatever redeeming value there is in agglomerating and printing copies of initial job application forms for a disparate set of employers like Subway and Fox News, Bank of America and Dollar General, seems so minimal next to this that it strikes me like, I'm sorry, something like urinating on a grave and expecting thanks for watering it.

    I think the real entitlement here is from the absolute jerks who thought this was any way to treat your fellow men and women who might be looking for a job.

    That's the self-righteousness here, theirs!

    Expecting their targets either to play along appreciatively with their insulting stunt, or else be attacked to the world, with this very old script, as the "undeserving poor."

    Cory, BobbyJim, friends, can't you see?

    :zx11pissed:
     
  13. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    If you haven't already from seeing it elsewhere, could I ask you to read this letter here?

    Open Letter to that 53% Guy (Max Udaro, Daily Kos, October 12, 2011)
     
  14. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    BJ,

    Is there something wrong with being an organizer or activist? As an activist, I am curious.

    Abner



     
  15. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I generally don't like kicking people when they're down either, although some deserve it.

    The thing is, the Occupods aren't going to find a job as long as they are camped out in an Obamaville tent city and participating in protests that seem to have no central message or philosophy. When I got out of the Army, I knew I wasn't going to find a job if I sat around and expected everything to be handed to me, so I worked a succession of very crappy jobs (landscaping, construction laborer, forklift operator, security guard) to pay the bills while I pursued my career of choice.

    Like Cory said, I've lost count of how many times I've worked on Christmas, Thanksgiving, July 4th, and every other holiday. I've always (and will always) do whatever I have to do to provide for myself and my family. It's more than a bit infuriating to see the Occupods complain that it's someone else's fault that they decided to spend $125,000 for a degree in Ancient Babylonian Astrology that's worthless in the current job market. Move out of the tent city, take a shower, and start looking for work on Craigslist and in the local classifieds.....the jobs are out there, they just need to swallow their pride (or in some cases, develop a sense of pride) and apply.
     
  16. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    But my guidance counselor said that I needed a college degree to get a job, and that I should pick a major that makes me feel special inside and that somebody else would pay for it :mad:
     
  17. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Dr. Whatley,

    Thanks for your commentary brother.

    Abner :smile:




     
  18. BobbyJim

    BobbyJim New Member

    Abner, Jonathan, etc.: I thought I was stating an obvious observation that many (maybe most, maybe not) OWS and Occupy ‘other cities’ are organizers and activists. Activist and organizer would not be my pick as a profession but if it floats your boat, go for it. Hey, you might even be elected to high office someday.

    At least one of the OWS activists is a relative of mine. This relative comes from a so-called 1% family and is working on the umpteenth liberal arts degree paid for by uber-liberal social worker mom and not so liberal entrepreneur pop. Is this the norm for OWS protestors? I don’t know, but some seem to fit that profile.

    Regarding the ‘gotcha’ reporting, of course any semi-intelligent person realizes it is what it is. I think you can agree that the practice is widely practiced by folks with both liberal and conservative agendas.

    Regarding jobs, there are good jobs available if you posses the right education and skills. These jobs do require studying unglamorous and tough subjects like science, technology, engineering, math, etc. We do issue H1B visas and we do turn a blind eye to illegal professional immigration, when convenient. Of course, they depress wages, and take jobs from citizens. As I said there are abuses on both sides of the equation.

    Obviously I do not agree with our journey to an entitlement society mentality….corporate or individual, and I do acknowledge abuses of all sorts by both sides of the equation.

    Fire away!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2011
  19. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    'I don't have a job personally' is certainly a complaint of some Occupy protesters, but I hardly think it's the central message or philosophy of the thing.

    And yes, there pretty much is one. There's range and diversity within the movement, as there's also been within the Tea Party, but there's an identifiable direction. Roger Lowenstein, in Bloomberg BusinessWeek:

    Occupy Wall Street: It's Not a Hippie Thing (Roger Lowenstein, Bloomberg BusinessWeek, October 27, 2011)

    I haven't been to an Occupy protest. Some of the things I've seen from Occupy protesters I disagree with, some very strongly. If you go to one of those pages from that Zombie guy, who quote-mines embarrassing signs and displays at left-wing demonstrations in the San Francisco Bay Area, I'll probably disagree with almost everything, perhaps even literally everything.

    Even in the list above. I'm a "big social safety net supporting a competitive market economy" guy. I honestly wouldn't be comfortable endorsing, say, "lower compensation for bankers" as public policy. I might make it my business myself I owned shares in a bank, and could work with other shareholder activists.

    Still, I also sympathize with a good amount of what I've heard from or associated with Occupy protesters.

    Even if you don't think of yourself as left-wing or progressive, look a little closer and don't just fall for a straw man or stereotype, and you might too.

    And there is enough there with substance to agree with, or not. Another test: If Obama announced tomorrow, say, that he was going to make a great big push push to restore provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act regulating the banking system, or to legislate around the Citizens United decision to put restraints on corporate political contributions or speech, this would easily be seen as, in part, a response to the Occupy movement and public opinion sympathetic to the movement.
     
  20. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Not a doctor. Yet!

    But thank you.

    *bow, honoured*
     

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