People with education degrees looked upon with scorn? Not just DL but B&M too.

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by SurfDoctor, Aug 24, 2011.

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  1. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I am reading Inside American Education by Sowell for a class I'm currently in. He made some statements in this book that were fairly extreme and I wanted to get opinions on them.

    He says that in most universities, the professors in the education department are looked upon with scorn by most other professors. The general idea is that there is no rigor in education degrees and the professors and students are dolts! On page 24, he reports that a Harvard professor spoke of the education department at Harvard as a "kitten that ought to be drowned." (Now there's some nice mental imagery for you) It appears that this attitude is not just toward online learning but is rooted in the very heart of some of the highest ranked institutions in the world.

    Please note that I'm not saying these things about ed degrees, so don't shoot the messenger!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2011
  2. Garp

    Garp Well-Known Member

    I don't know where all that stuff started but years ago when I was a humble undergrad I used to hear it all the time. Things like, "If you want an easy Masters get one in Education" same thing for the doctorate. There was some truth in that at my school getting into the MA in Psych was very competitive, so a back door route was to go into the MEd program (easier admissions) and then apply to the PhD in Psych program.

    Part of the EdD perception is that it is sort of a practitioner degree but this is no longer the case. My understanding is that in most cases it is the equivalent of a PhD. The problem is that ignorance abounds. I recall on one of these boards an anecdotal story of someone with an accredited EdD in government service whose staff refused to call him "Dr." because...ready for this....it was not a PhD. You would expect people in academia to be better informed (as with the Harvard folks) but it is part of our culture to undervalue education and undervalue teachers (and I guess by extension those whose profession is to educate them).

    Dr. Pina may have some thoughts on this subject
    I know someone with an EdD who is a prof and he is not in the education dept (different subject) and he is a VERY well respected academic. Don't think the EdD issue heart him at all.
     
  3. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    It's funny because they were talking about this very thing on AM radio this morning on my commute to work. Even if it isn't entirely true there are enough people out there to believe it to be so as to warrant some consideration.
     
  4. Diesel13

    Diesel13 Member

    My colleague just informed me that the local state university MEd in school administration is a joke. He claims no one ever reads his papers and that it's only a hoop to jump through. He's 28 units into the program and finally one of the professors calls him out on not citing his papers.
     
  5. GeeBee

    GeeBee Member

  6. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    What school? B&M or online? Let me know so I can sign up! :shock:
     
  7. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    There are data to back up the claim, see the above post re:SAT scores. I think I remember seeing the same pattern for GRE scores. Makes sense to me. Your best and brightest are going into STEM; you know, where the money is.
     
  8. major56

    major56 Active Member

    Regrettably in my view, there’s some merit to the claim. I completed an M.Ed back in 2004 in residence at a local state university (though NOT a Teachers College-Columbia University level university) after a number of years in the private sector. Prior to the M.Ed, I had completed a MBA (1997) and am currently completing a second MBA. In my personal experience, earning the MBA was /is more demanding. More importantly, the in general perception is not all that high outside the education industry as regards education field advanced degrees. And the bottom-line, perception is what’s going to actually count ... justifiable argument or not.
     
  9. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    THREAD DERAIL:

    Sir, why are you getting a second MBA?
     
  10. major56

    major56 Active Member

    1) The 2nd MBA is in Public Administration, 2) I’m a consultant in the public sector and it’s not costing me anything in tuition costs as a Texas veteran (Hazlewood Act) and 3) I just want to do it. :dunno:
     
  11. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Fair enough, was just wondering why you would try to enter the Ted Heiks double-MBA holder domain ;)


    [/THREAD DERAIL]
     
  12. Psydoc

    Psydoc New Member

    1978 - I was taking a Statistics class for the MBA; professor comes into class with a bandaid on his forehead - naturally, the question; "what happened to your heard?" The answer, "I went to a meeting in the Education Department and they were giving out Masters degrees as I was leaving; I could not get out of the way." TRUE STORY.

    Same school, I needed 3 hours for the MBA and could take an elective so to bolster my transcript I decided to take an additional statistics course - Educational Statistics. After the second exam the instructor questioned my scores; 100's on all assignments and the extra 20 points for the bonus questions. After I told him I had completed 9 hours in statistics in the MBA program he told me "to get me stuff and go," seems I was messing up the curve (which none of the other students understood. The MBA course covered more in the first class than the Ed Styx class did the entire semester. I later learned that over half the class failed or dropped and a large marjority took an Incomplete for another shot at it.

    Read Walter William's columns on the perils of education - sadly, the brainacs are not teaching our kids and grandkids.
     
  13. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    ......:haha:
     
  14. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I'm in education and I just scored in the 92nd percentile on the MAT, 90th percentile on the GMAT, so not all of us are dolts.
     
  15. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    For 2004-2005, the disciplines that attracted the highest scoring students (> 1100 cumulative SAT) were:

    1171 Mathematics
    1158 Languages and literature
    1156 Physical Sciences
    1126 Foreign/classical Languages
    1108 Engineering
    1105 Biological Sciences
    1103 Philosophy/religion/theology

    So STEM fields (science, techology, engineering, mathematics) don't have a monopoly on the brightest undergraduates.
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I was citing a statement in Bears' Guide to a Physics PhD dropout one time. He asked who this John Bear dolt was. I said he was a world expert on distance education and diploma mills. He asked about Bear's educational credentials. When I said a PhD in education, he responded with something like, "I knew he was a dolt, all education degree holders are dolts." My thought was that that shoe seemed to fit the PhD dropout far better than anyone else around.
     
  17. Michael

    Michael Member

    In my state you only have to score at the 25th percentile on the NTE in order to be certified! That says a lot about the quality of public education.
     
  18. major56

    major56 Active Member

    When I did the M.Ed in educational leadership, disappointingly there were so many fellow students who couldn’t have led starving men /women to a chow hall at gun point much less eventually effectively lead a school or district. Please don’t get me started on the K-12 public education industry and it’s far too many colleges of education schooled current /future destructive leaders along with the rampant and incestuous politics— all leading to a disservice to children, the taxpayer, communities, industry, and ultimately the nation …
     
  19. HikaruBr

    HikaruBr Member

    Interesting, I've never noticed this here in the USA. In my country the prejudice against people with education degree is very wide spread - but this is mostly because some education courses in Brazil are dominated by very leftist (I'm not talking "liberal" leftist, but socialist/comunist left) and unpractical theories.

    So the prejudice is just because the Education degrees attract people with low SAT scores?
     
  20. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    You should read that book then, you would love it. Inside American Education by Thomas Sowell I agree to a large extent with the views on the public school system having worked in it for a few years. Not all schools are bad though. The one I work at is awesome. Great teachers, rigorous curriculum, caring atmosphere. It's an expensive, private school though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2011

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