DETC Doctorate program accreditation

The DoD is facing an enormous budget battle. TA costs have been increasing exponentially for the DoD. Why would a potential tightening on TA restrictions be off the table?

http://military-education.military.com/2011/02/tuition-assistance-and-the-military-budget/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+EducationEssentialIntel+%28Military+Education+Blog%29.

My source for my comments worked at the Pentagon as a senior staffer in the Office of the Chaiman of the Army Chief of Staff where it was discussed at length recently in staff meetings.

I work for a school with a large military student population and there are number of initiatives coming down the way to ensure that students who are receiving TA are actively involved in class and making satisfactory progress in order to receive continued TA. Those who are not active at the beginning of the class are going to be removed within the first couple of weeks. These efforts are not being generated or dictated by the school.

Believe what you want, but eventually there is going to be a significant change in the way that the U.S. government provides educational support for its own employees. My own employer is a local gov. agency that does not recognize NA degrees and there are numerous other agencies in my area that are going in that direction. All it really takes is for some Senator to get a burr under his saddle, some Congressional hearings, a few public sob-stories of people paying for classes that they did not attend, and the rest is just a footnote.

 

The Union Institute's Ph.D. program came under scrutiny by the Ohio Board of Regents in the late 1990s early 2000s, which scrutiny culminated in its 2002 Reauthorization Report. The report was critical of the Union Institute's Ph.D. program, noting in particular that " ... expectations for student scholarship at the doctoral level were not as rigorous as is common for doctoral work ... " (OBR 2002 Reauthorization Report, page 13) The Union was put on probation. Later, the Union Graduate School was dissolved and the Ph.D. program was restructured.

Mr Levicoff calls DETC university degrees Mikey Mouse on the other channel.
His Ph.D. in religion and law (1991) from the Union Institute is not in that time frame mentioned above and its possible that I'm wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate or have anything against him.

I liked the times when he published Name It and Frame It, I think he did some good work in exposing diploma mills but he is wrong about DETC accredited degrees.

I express my opinion and never represented my ideas as some expert.
I also accept criticism, its OK not to agree with what I say.

As a Licensed member of NSPE, and as someone who served on ABET accreditation board as evaluator,I'm a little voice for DETC accredited schools who sujets to build relationship and work with ABET and many other Specialty and Professional Accreditation Agencies.

Wile in Engineering the issue is the Labs in IT and CS Lab is not an issue.
The main issue is the cost of accreditation.
The reason I mention this is because I wish graduates of NA universities to have better utility of their degrees. And in the chapter and TAC meetings I'm that voice, not the only one.

 

So the point of your post was to attack Learner for his opinion? What are you bringing to the table Kizmet? ...other than to point out perceived flaws in another members opinion.

 

So people attending NA schools are not going to class? Is that why they are going to drop NA tuition programs....lol

 

No - a change in the way the federal government pays tuition assistance for its own people to attend class is going to cause restrictions on which types of programs and schools they are willing to pay for will.

 

I did not attack Lerner for his opinion, I criticized the opinion itself. Lerner is a solid, long-term member who has contributed much to this board over the years. His statement, however was factually incorrect and logically flawed. What I brought to the table was that I know enough about the subject to point out those issues. I have no problem with the fact that other's opinions differ from my own. One of the strengths of DegreeInfo is that a range of opinions are welcome. However, when factual statements are made we will point it out if they are not correct. I, myself have been corrected many times on this board and while I might be a bit embarrassed by that from time to time, I am usually grateful for the correction, regardless of whether I express that or not.

 

osandug

Lerner is a last name not to be confused with Learner.
(sic)???? think twice.

As to Union -
The Union Institute 's Ph.D. program came under scrutiny by the Ohio Board of Regents in the late 1990s early 2000s, which scrutiny culminated in its 2002 Reauthorization Report. The report was critical of the Union Institute 's Ph.D. program, noting in particular that " ... expectations for student scholarship at the doctoral level were not as rigorous as is common for doctoral work ... " (OBR 2002 Reauthorization Report, page 13) The Union was put on probation. Later, the Union Graduate School was dissolved and the Ph.D. program was restructured.

I'm confident that today's DETC Doctorates are of higher standard then the late 1990s early 2000s Union RA doctorates.
I also would like to hear from some one who actually earned DETC Doctorate and compare the outcomes.

DETC Doctorates are new, time is needed to see how they will serve the graduates.

Many graduates of RA button tier universities try to brush the tier under the carpet as if its RA vs NA.
I say its University vs University and graduates vs graduates.

 

What kind of relationship does DETC currently have with ABET ?

How many DETC programs (engineering, technology, computer science/IT, applied science) are also accredited by ABET ?

My guess would be that the number is probably low, and maybe zero.

 

That would be an interesting study

That would be an interesting study. I do vaguely remember someone locating a similar study which compared the Ed.D vs. the Ph.D. citation count or something--- It may have been Dr. Pena---not sure though.

 

Its not only about DETC but about the schools that would like to get professionally or specialty accredited.

Some universities elected to have multiple accreditation , WGU, AMU, APU are DETC and RA.

Now that the world of RA moved aggressively to offer degrees by DL the professional and specialty accreditors who accredit B&M and DL programs at the RA universities and colleges have less resistance to re-evaluate professional accreditation of NA universities.

Did NA (DETC) offer Doctorate accreditation in the past? NO

Do they offer it today ? YES

This shows that things change with the time.

I hope my voice and others in the comities of IEEE, NSPE that participate in accreditation discussions, including employers and other representatives will produce such change.

After all the unaccredited Flight Testing Institute in CA has ABET accredited Masters program wile the Institute is only state approved and has no RA or NA accreditation.

Thats could be the next challenge, as one issue to resolve is how to afford such accreditation. Will it be the model of Cal Flight Testing Institute that only selected programs will be professionally accredited?

I have no answers, but DETC is not idle on this issues.

 

ABET is a programmatic (not institutional) accreditor, so that's the expected model for ABET accreditation. Even at highly regarded tech schools like Caltech or MIT, only selected programs hold ABET accreditation.

In practice, it's unlikely that a school would hold ABET accreditation for every degree program that it offered. This would probably happen only at a very specialized school that only offered a very small number of exclusively technical degrees (e.g. Webb Institute).

 

In my own experience this is true. Wentworth has a number of programs that are ABET accredited (including my own) but other programs, like architecture, are not (they have their own separate professional accreditation.)

 

Exactly what I stated earlier.

As of today there are no DETC accredited Universities that provide ABET accredited Engineering, Technology or Computer science programs.

In the past ABET accredited programs only at RA universities mostly with a few exceptions.

Not sure who will be the first CA National or another DETC accredited school that will attempt accredit their EE, EET, CS program by ABET etc.

Once they achieve that milestone there will be a different ball game.

 

If California National or other DETC schools are serious about achieving ABET accreditation, then it seems strange that it's taking them so long.

NTPS has had an ABET-accredited MS program since 2004. So ABET has apparently been prepared to accredit non-RA schools for a number of years.

DETC only recently gained the ability to accredit doctoral programs, but that's irrelevant as far as ABET eligibility goes, since ABET only accredits AS, BS, and MS degrees anyway.

 

Looks like I got caught in the RA vs NA debate.

Maybe the Call Southern PsyD get APA accreditation?

So take the following program and try to achieve APA accreditation.
Doctor Of Psychology Degree | PsyD Degree - California Southern University

Will APA accredit such a program if it was adjusted to meet their requirements or they only accredit programs at RA universities and to be RA is one of the requirements?

http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/about/policies/guiding-principles.pdf

A. Doctoral Graduate Programs
Domain A: Eligibility
As a prerequisite for accreditation, the program’s purpose must be
within the scope of the accrediting body and must be pursued in an
institutional setting appropriate for the doctoral education and training of professional psychologists.
1. The program offers doctoral education and training in psychology, one goal of which is to prepare students for the practice of professional psychology.
2. The program is sponsored by an institution of higher education accredited by a nationally recognized regional accrediting
body in the United States, or, in the case of Canadian programs, the institution is publicly recognized by the
Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada as a
member in good standing.*
3. The program is an integral part of the mission of the academic
department, college, school, or institution in which it resides. It is
represented in the institution’s operating budget and plans in a
manner designed to enable the program to achieve its goals
and objectives. The program must have students in sufficient

 

So I guess it looks like there's no reason built in to the APA accrediting process that would prohibit a DETC school from applying for their accreditation. But I'm guessing that it must be a difficult process since there are a bunch of RA doctoral programs that haven't bothered applying. It would seem that they have all done their homework and decided that it's not worth the bother.

I would agree with you in principle though. If a DETC school/program were to obtain some other recognized professional accreditation such as APA then you would have to reconsider that school in light of the new accreditation process. However (and this is the point I was trying to make before) hypotheticals are fun to think about but they are not reality. If Cal Southern ever becomes APA accredited then I'll be the first one to revisit this question. Until then it's a meaningless issue.

 

I think you may be misreading the part of the APA guidelines that Lerner highlighted. The requirement was NOT a nationally recognized OR regional accreditation body. It was for regional accreditation organizations that are nationally recognized. The "nationally recognized" part was to prevent someone from making up their own regional accrediting body, like "Kizmet's Southwestern College and University Association". Thus, the only U.S. schools eligible would be those accredited by the 6 regional accrediting bodies (SACS, MSACS, WASC, NWAC, NCA, and NEASC).

 

So . . . OK.