For-profit college risk: Huge debt, questionable degree

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by AV8R, Sep 2, 2010.

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  1. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

  2. PatsGirl1

    PatsGirl1 New Member

    $75,000 for a degree in FASHION MERCHANDISING?! And it's not like it was at Parsons or something... wow.

    I feel ok with my $6600 B.A. in English now. I thought THAT was a waste!
     
  3. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    It looks like the biases against online degrees are alive and well. I was reading some of the comments after the article and found this one...

    "When I'm filling a position requiring a college degree, the first resumes I put in the trash are from people with online degrees and degrees from For-Profit schools. Since these diploma mills have no academic standards for admission these degrees tell me you are not willing to do the hard work to earn the degree."
     
  4. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck


    Heather a degree in English is never a waste. Every position needs the ability to communicate both orally and in writing and the skills you acquired completing your degree may be the same ones that benefit a subordinate, co-worker, or the organization. The abilities to write and justify appraisals, bonuses, business cases, etc... are all essential in the workplace. I knew that my English degree was the right path (but I have significant technical expertise) when a Business professor (at an AACSB B-school) was bringing his papers for publication to my advisor for critique prior to submission.

    Your degrees will be similar to mine when finished and should serve you well when combined with some experience.

    As for the folks in the article, they would benefit from ROI 101.
     
  5. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Any college or university (for-profit or non-profit) that engages in deceptive practices, misrepresents its accreditation and over-inflates the value and earning power of its degrees, deserves to be held accountable. The NA vs RA situation is well-known to frequenters of Degreeinfo. It is also true that many for-profit universities are regionally accredited and that the vast majority do not engage in the types of tactics attributed to Westwood.
     
  6. PatsGirl1

    PatsGirl1 New Member

    And you know what the irony is? Some for-profit schools (and no I don't want to get into the FP vs NFP debate and what constitutes "online" debate lol) are pretty exacting... Ashford is FP, albeit not considered an "online" school (debatable point when most of its students are online, but it technically has a physical campus in Clinton, IA, with sport teams and all that). I am not an academic slouch and I am WORKING for this degree. It's tough. My stepdad did the MSA (basically like the MBA just less quantitative) program at Central Mich and my mom did an MBA at CMich. I looked at their papers and work they had to do and mine is right on par with theirs. I'm confident already in the degree utility.
     
  7. PatsGirl1

    PatsGirl1 New Member


    The big problem I have is switching from MLA to APA. APA is very different lol... Also I tend to do passive voice a lot (I'm a creative writer) and it's a hard, hard habit to break :)
     
  8. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member


    This is not restricted to for-profit on-line schools. I have also read stories where students attending non-profit or public B&M universities have also ran up huge debts while obtaining either a not-too-useful degrees or a degree from an expensive school.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2010
  9. PatsGirl1

    PatsGirl1 New Member

    Kind of an arbitrary (and maybe semi-rhetorical) question- what do you guys consider "huge" debt? What is a "reasonable" amount? Would having a BA/MA and owing $30k be reasonable? Or only a BS and owing $50k, but it's engineering? I understand ROI and all that, but how do you decide it's a decent amount vs. too much?
     
  10. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    In truth this whole stigma is U of P's fault. My 11 year asked me the other day, “Dad you’re not going to University of Phx are you?" I asked "Why?" he told me, "because that would be embarrassing dad!" My wife and I stood there speechless. I asked him why he thought that and he said "they were making fun of them on I Carly." (Which is a kid’s show). This is what happens when you run ad's 24/7 TV/Radio and the internet. You help kill the idea that holding a degree puts you in a special club or class of people.
     
  11. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    Does holding a degree really make you more special? I'd argue that it most certainly does not.

    I'm not sure I want any part of a club that will have me as a member
    ;) Groucho
     
  12. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Oh no! We must do our utmost to protect those poor elitists!
     
  13. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Personally, I am really anti-debt. I believe in the pay-as-you-go concept. The few exceptions I guess would be med school or an ivy league degree that has a greater potential ROI. My niece (who graduated from Nova with a PharmD) completed a degree from U of New Havan and it cost something like $100K. My sister paid cash. Zero debt but an unreal amount of money for a BS degree. How do you classify that? Is it important to add the cost of the school as a "debt" even if you pay cash or is it just how much of a loan you walk away with?
     
  14. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    If that's a RA, BA/MA that's the high end of OK. You could go cheaper but you are also not breaking the bank. I paid 22K for MS and teaching credential combo at National University. The same thing at a top tier B&M will cost you well over 100K. If your degrees are not RA, then 30K is not a good deal at all.
     
  15. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    That's my point, it scares the heck out of them.
     
  16. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I think that's why many of them are so venomous in their hate for DL; it's a threat to their way of life. Admittedly, many DL programs don't compare favorably to elitist programs, but a few may be coming close and that is probably threatening to the status quo for them. All supposition on my part.
     
  17. NorCal

    NorCal Active Member

    When I first began kicking around the idea of college, I spoke to a women at work who stated they are two ways to get a degree: The first way was to earn it at a real (B&M) school, or you can by a degree online. She then said buying a degree is what her brother did at UoP; but she wanted a real degree from (B&M) state college.

    But on the other hand, many managers at work have completed online schools, but the high end administration managers all have B&M degrees.

    So I don't know what to believe.

    A college degree will open doors, but thats it. After that, its up to you and your own skills to determine how high you will move up the ladder.
     
  18. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Absolutely, a degree is just a key to open a door. Where you go after that is determined by your hard work and talent. It's sad that so much must be done and spent, just to open a door, but that's the way it is.
     
  19. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    But how high is okay? Would a MS from a school that cost $50K have served you better? Where do you draw the line? How do you strike a balance between the debt / school name / desired degree?
     
  20. PatsGirl1

    PatsGirl1 New Member

    I love the idea of pay as you go, and I did that for my BA. My MBA I just can't right now. I'll pay part OOP and the rest loans. It'll still end up costing me at least $10,000 less for 2 RA degrees than it costs people here (in MI) for one BA/BS. That's just straight tuition, no fees, no books, cheapest school at around $300/cr undergrad. Schools here are expensive and for some odd reason, no one seems to really want to take advantage of the Comm College system here.

    To (probably grossly over-)simplify things, I just take the cost of the degree, period. How you pay for it is up to you. Obviously, financing costs you more in interest, but for simplicity's sake, I just say "My BA was $6600, my MBA will be $18,000" and figure out ROI on $25k. Make sense?

    I already received a good ROI on my BA- I received a permanent job position (was temp previously) and a direct pay increase of about $2k/yr. I just started my MBA 6 wks ago and was told yesterday I will get another pay grade increase due to merit, but this pay grade wouldn't have been available until I either had a Master's or was enrolled in a Master's program. This will be about a $4k increase. To be sure, those are small amounts, but a) I'm in govt, so still pretty good, and b) it's psychologically motivating when you see a relatively quick compensation increase from education.
     

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