Why choose DETC?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by bennylinus, Mar 10, 2010.

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  1. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    If many RA graduate programs are better respected than all DETC graduate programs, then that might be an excellent reason to choose those RA programs. That's going to be very important if somebody wants a university teaching job or a job at a biotech firm.

    If RA bachelors programs have better acceptance by graduate programs and by some unknown percentage of employers, then young people and career-changers who are concerned about maximum future recognition of their degrees probably should pay close attention.

    But for somebody like Chip, who's in his 50's, already has a job, and just wants to earn a degree at this stage in his life, a DETC program might be as good a choice as RA if he likes the program.

    And for somebody like me, in my 60's now (eek!) who is basically interested in DL for personal interest reasons, something like Harrison Middleton might be a great choice. (Or it would be if it was less expensive and I was more in tune with its great-books approach.) Harrison Middleton wouldn't be very competitive for full-time faculty hiring (unless the candidate was exceptional in other ways) but it might work very well as a continuing-education upgrade degree for community college instructors.

    It's a student by student, school by school and situation by situation deal. One size does not always fit all.

    So that's the answer to the original question in the subject line (which I now think was rhetorical and a little trollish). It's why people sometimes choose DETC. They like some particular DETC program and think that it will work for them. It's often a well-informed and rational decision.

    But that's not to say that it never makes any difference or that the schools on the DETC and RA rosters are always academically equivalent. (Hey, they are all accredited, aren't they?) It isn't always the case. Nor is there any evidence that there's any evil RA conspiracy to suppress DETC. That's just dumb. If there was, then why aren't they suppressing the NY Regents schools? Instead RA schools collaborate with them and hire their graduates. It could happen with DETC too, if the DETC schools behaved a bit more like conventional universities.
     
  2. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Hate to call you out Simon, but your view is irresponsible in my opinion.

    Why?: Because many people have either no idea there's an accreditation issue in the first place AND many people also have no idea what they are going to need from their effort 5 years from now, let alone for the rest of their careers, when they sign up for a program.

    Your statement only makes sense when a student is properly informed of the culture surrounding the utility of accreditation and what it will do for you in the future. If a student is fully informed and makes the decision towards a DETC school, then yes.

    If not, then no.

    The only simple statement that is true a majority of the time when comparing RA and DETC accredited programs is this:

    If you want the full utility of your degree as you'd expect it to open all doors possible with the degree you need to go to a good program that's also regionally and professionally accredited. (RA, ABET, AACSB etc.)

    There's no good reason to go to a DETC school except cost, and if you're looking for a cheap education, there are only a few programs in the world where cheap doesn't mean loss of quality.
     
  3. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    Debate over. The basic question posed by bennylinus can be put to rest and we can now move on. There is always a good feeling when things get wrapped up and conclusions can be comfortably drawn.
     
  4. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    There's also self-paced grad programs

    Cost is a BIG deal, especially when you're talking 30k or so difference for public service degrees like an EdD. The other issue is flexibility. Taft and Ashworth, for example, offer self-paced programs. The traditional approach with start dates and due dates makes grad school impossible for a lot of people. If you're grown and have a job and family almost EVERYTHING has to come before school. Self-pacing lets students study without neglecting more important things. It's immoral to neglect your family and unethical to cheat your boss just to get a degree.
     
  5. The_Professor

    The_Professor New Member



    Again, if one wants to get caught up in hypotheticals and theoretical potentialities about limiting one's career prospects and hireability, and what is actually "good enough" when it comes to higher education, then it would be reasonable to reject DL altogether and only consider going for one of the handful of really high-end B&M institutions. Anything less would be considered inferior and second-rate, would it not?
     
  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Exactly, flexibility that allows very good retention of the material.
    You read, you study understand then do home work and after completing 10 to 14 classes you take supervised / proctored final exam. I think this is something that most DETC accredited schools offer. It may not be for every one but for many it is great model.

    The cost was also a major decision factor.

    The DETC university I attended provided me what I was looking for in DL university.
    I'm considering DETC accredited DBA degree.
     
  7. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    I have to tell you that I think Ashworth is one of the better DETC examples out there. I have found their staff to be very student focused and friendly. While I didn't find the exact program I wanted, I was more than impressed with their professionalism and helpfulness.

    On the other hand, the RA programs I looked at from a credit cost analysis was ludicrous and one of the primary reasons I decided on a DETC program. When you consider that schools like Penn Foster offer not only low tuition, but also include textbooks with their programs; it's a tremendous incentive to students looking for a great value and education.

    What I also find fascinating is that consumers are now in control and are the ones deciding how education is going to be delivered, which is confirmed by more and more DETC programs popping up. Without a doubt, DETC schools are going to be major force over the next ten years, in this consumer driven market.
     
  8. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    I will declare this my last post in the thread because honestly, the paradigm differences between myself and this above post are vast.

    1. I operate at director level at my place of employ. I have been promoted twice during my tenure as an online student.
    2. I have a family (wife and son)
    3. I'm in a AACSB accredited MBA program my employer pays for.
    4. My program is not self-paced.

    Results:
    1. I time manage exceptionally well
    2. I do not neglect my family, my wife is an academic. My son is doing very well (and he's under the age of 10). I routinely go to all of his school events and take him to play dates.
    3. My program is not DETC and I don't need the adult learner crutch beyond it being online and part time.

    Ultimately, the work is possible with demands being placed on me. I'm not being unethical and my employer is not being cheated.

    Broad stroke painting is wonderful, but before you say "This isn't possible unless," keep in mind that there are people in the world that prove these things wrong and patently so.

    People fail at achieving because they haven't set themselves up to succeed. Period. All you need to do is get your s..t together.

    Harder for some than others I'd suppose.

    Nuff said. You get what you deserve, and what you pay for.
     
  9. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Depends on your publications. RA and proper professional accreditation is part of the equation. Publications would determine the rest of it; lest you'd never see Capella grads get tenure track positions anywhere.
     
  10. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    Personally, I like the course-in-a-box system that's mass produced and cuts costs. I toured the Ashworth facility and was amazed. The place is buzzing...everyone is working and things are constantly moving. They have a warehouse and loading dock that supports a steady flow of course materials...each box an entire course, including the textbook. True, it's impersonal but it's also easy to maintain course quality. It's not the silver bullet of education but for many people it's the best way.
     
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    There are also programs such as at Penn Forster that cary ACE credit recommendation.

    College Credit Recommendations
    The American Council on Education's College Credit Recommendation Service (ACE CREDIT) has evaluated and recommended college credit for 182 Penn Foster College courses.

    Such DETC accredited college graduates have larger network of universities NA/RA that will accept transfer credit or admissions in to further study.
     
  12. simon

    simon New Member

    ITJD: Hate to call you out Simon, but your view is irresponsible in my opinion.

    SIMON: ITJD, you can call me out anytime just make certain that you know what you are talking about. Let's see where you take off from here.

    ITJD: Why?: Because many people have either no idea there's an accreditation issue in the first place AND many people also have no idea what they are going to need from their effort 5 years from now, let alone for the rest of their careers, when they sign up for a program.

    SIMON: In fact you misinterpreted and misrepresented the gist of my statement above entirely! Furthermore you are underestimating the capacity of many prospective students to make informed decisions that are in their best interests. In that regard I clearly stated that "...each prospective student needs to DETERMINE which mode of accreditation will best address the enhancement of their career and professional aspirations or in fact hinder it...", implying that DETC may not be in their best interests or in fact just may be the right pathway to take. So although RA is considered the gold standard in the realm of college and graduate education, in fact there are no general rules that stipulate that RA is the sole pathway for ALL students because at different stages of personal and professional development students' personal and professional needs change and are not static. For example whereby a RA credential at an earlier stage in their development may have been the most viable track to take, a DETC program may be the right pathway at a latter stage.

    The term I used, to "DETERMINE" implies that prospective students need to make such informed decisions based on their performing a needs assessment including exploring such issues as the various forms of accreditation and how each may assist or hinder their future career and/or professional status; the financial and time commitment necessary to complete a specific accredited degree program; a comparison of the curriculums offered at selected schools, both RA and DETC to determine which is most congruent with their needs and future goals (ie, acquiring a new position, obtaining a job promotion, etc);, and whether family and personal obligations will enhance or hinder attaining their educational goals.

    ITJD: Your statement only makes sense when a student is properly informed of the culture surrounding the utility of accreditation and what it will do for you in the future. If a student is fully informed and makes the decision towards a DETC school, then yes.

    SIMON: OBVIOUSLY! And that is where you are underestimating many students capacity to become informed, either through self exploration of the relevant issues pertaining to accreditation and its impact on their future professional and career planning and goals or through obtaining appropriate guidance through career counseling or coaching, a pathway many students seek at different stages of their lives.

    ITJD: If not, then no.

    SIMON: What a revelation!:eek:

    ITJD: The only simple statement that is true a majority of the time when comparing RA and DETC accredited programs is this:

    If you want the full utility of your degree as you'd expect it to open all doors possible with the degree you need to go to a good program that's also regionally and professionally accredited. (RA, ABET, AACSB etc.)

    SIMON: Yes, RA and the other professional accreditation sources you note are very credible and solid and should serve the possessor of such degrees very well. HOWEVER, there are individuals who do not possess RA accredited degrees but ones from DETC schools who have succeeded in achieving their goals and objectives on par with those from RA schools. In short, BASED on an individual's professional, career and experiential stage of development, an RA degree may be in their best interests while at other stages a DETC degree may be in line with their needs and goals.

    ITJD: There's no good reason to go to a DETC school except cost, and if you're looking for a cheap education, there are only a few programs in the world where cheap doesn't mean loss of quality.

    SIMON: Your position is rigid and inflexible and that is not the way one survives and achieves goals in a very difficult and faltering economic climate where a lack of sufficient funds is a major issue in the lives of many, unemployment is rampant while many are confronted by an extremely competitive job market. In fact many people do not have forty to seventy five thousand dollars to spend for a RA distance online degree program.

    In fact there is no one form of accreditation for everyone to realize their goals BUT the most relevant one that is congruent with their unique personal, professional and career stage of development and life circumstances. In fact everyone of us is unique and one "size" so-to-speak does not fit all. So while we acknowledge that RA is the gold standard it may or may not be the absolute pathway for any given individual. Only that person, after a careful exploration and consideration of their own situation and personal resources and the objectives they hope to accomplish, can make such critical decisions, not based on generalizations regarding the superiority of RA but on their own situations and career and professional goals.
     
  13. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Give Peace a Chance

    [​IMG]

    People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?
     
  14. The_Professor

    The_Professor New Member

    Tenure is wholly irrelevant to many, including myself, and would never find its way into my analysis and critical thinking when it comes to the decisions pertinent to my career.
     
  15. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    I'd say our differences are quite vast. There are many types of jobs and family situations. Some are more demanding than others. In my case I have a job that requires frequent involuntary assignments, so there is no way to always meet assignment deadlines. On many occasions I've had to miss a deadline and explain myself to get extensions. If they call you have to go in and that's that. Some families also have more kids and less money. I have 5, so it's a juggling act. All of that comes first and school comes second. I managed to complete an RA master's degree on a timetable in 2003, but it was a hardship for everyone. I'd have to push everyone aside in a traditionally scheduled program. A program that let me prioritize might be a crutch, but it's not a sign of laziness or ability.
     
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    This whole thread, no, this whole topic, seems destined to descend into snarkiness regardless of warnings, etc. It's almost to the point where I'm ready to ban someone just for raising the issue. So here it is:
    1) I don't know why it's so hard for people to allow others to have alternate opinions. If you want to state your opinion that's fine. Then you've got to let it go. People are going to do what they're going to do.
    2) People state opinions as if they're facts. Let's do a little critical thinking here everybody. Inside this particular issue there are precious few facts. Please don't mistake your personal logic for the truth.
    3) I think that everyone has had a chance to express their opinion on this issue. Most have expressed their opinion(s) repeatedly. I'm locking this thread. If it gets reopened within too short of a time (by MY definition) then someone is going on a vacation.
    4) The bar has been raised when it comes to civility. You can be as subtle as you like but if the perception (mine) is that you've crossed the line there will be no warning shot fired. I'm tired of minding children. Behave yourselves.
     
  17. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    I need to clarify one thing:

    The post with my name attached is not mine. It was from The Professor, and was reposted by me because it got buried due to a moderation problem. It clearly says that at the top of the thread, but people seem to have missed that, and have credited the topic material in that thread to me.

    I, personally, cannot imagine a scenario where I would choose a DETC school. There are pretty much always RA alternatives which are similar in cost to (if slightly more expensive than ) DETC schools.

    Likewise, there are still issues with the acceptability of DETC degrees; it limits one's options as far as graduate programs, since some (and perhaps a majority of) RA schools will not accept a DETC undergrad degree.

    Third, there are still the issues with acceptance by employers. If there are even a handful of situations where a DETC degree will not be considered acceptable, and an RA degree will be, then one must really weigh the relative value; a few thousand dollars saved on a DETC degree may become very expensive if it affects the ability to be hired for a position where an RA degree is required.

    Of course, DETC is a legitmate accreditor and DETC schools are credible programs (even if some of them have incredibly shady histories.) So for some people, they may be a great choice. But I cannot see a circumstance where I would personally choose one.

    Just wanted to clarify.
     
  18. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Rich's post does not constitute a personal attack. However "vitriolic rambling" does qualify as a personal attack.

    This is your last warning.
     
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