Is DL really as good as B&M?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by MichaelOliver, Mar 5, 2010.

Loading...
  1. bazonkers

    bazonkers New Member

    I had fraternity brothers that had already passed the class that probably would have done it for a case of beer. :) We used to have a file in the house of all the old exams brothers had taken and gotten back for others to use in future classes. Many of the teachers were too lazy to change the exams from semester to semester.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2010
  2. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    I think for bachelors programs outside of the hard sciences DL programs are probably on par with B&M programs, assuming it is from a reputable institution. The same probably holds true for graduate level programs in the liberal arts.

    I think when you get into professional degree programs like business and law, B&M are superior. You can actually learn a lot through class discussion with fellow students that have gained several years of professional experience to bring to the classroom. Also, the working professionals that come to campus and speak to students provide an opportunity to make connections with companies/industries you might be interested in working for/in, which I always contend is one of the biggest draws of a top tier MBA program and is something that can't be replicated via DL.

    DL degrees may be viewed as "lesser" by some employers, but I think that can be attributed more to a lack of understanding than the actual quality of the program. I think you will continue to see a shift in this perception as more people who grew up with DL as a viable option begin to move up to higher level management positions inside organizations and change the perception or at least don't come with the current biases that some HR professionals/recruiters/executives currently have because DL education is so foreign to them.
     
  3. If this thread doesn't get a sticky, we should abolish the sticky system altogether.
     
  4. imalcolm

    imalcolm New Member

    MUST? Shouldn't.
     
  5. ......Agreed!
     
  6. daniellevine

    daniellevine New Member

    I didn't realize a prestigious university like MUST was part of this discussion. In that case, distance education is far superior to BM. At MUST, everything is automated- all of the teachers, principals, directors, and exam graders are automatic- and they are amazing or else they would not have been hired.

    Not to mention, you can get an RA degree at a brick and mortar school, but you can't get an IAO-accredited degree. According to Glen Smith, IAOs are globally accepted. He told me that global > national > regional.
     
  7. bazonkers

    bazonkers New Member

    Isn't there a separate thread to discuss MUST?
     
  8. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    It depends on the student

    In many cases, youngsters often need the campus setting to help them into adulthood. At the same time, for a lot of adults the campus life is a headache and time waster. It really depends on students' needs and learning styles.
     
  9. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    We had the same thing at our fraternity house at Auburn. Actually, all the fraternities had them.
     
  10. Andy Borchers

    Andy Borchers New Member

    All other things equal the mode of delivery )be it online or onground) has no major effect (search the net for "no significant difference"). But rarely are things equal. Faculty quality and student quality vary as do a host of other factors.

    R Andy

     
  11. That's a good point. The campus experience is, IMO, beneficial to the maturing process of young people. It teaches them to be where they are supposed to be at an appointed time, and to be there on time. It teaches them to work in concert, face to face with others, as well. That's something that DL cannot offer.
     
  12. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    Say you have a B&M class. The instructor assigns textbook and article readings, and grades assignments. There is no original material provided (no lectures, handouts, etc.) For class sessions, the students are told to discuss the subject amongst themselves for half an hour a week. The instructor shows up to these classes but doesn't say a word - providing no input on whether the students are on the right track or not - only bothering to answer questions directed directly to him/her.

    If this actually happened in a B&M (and I'm sure it does from time to time) the students would be upset at the level of instruction they were getting for their tuition, the administration would dicipline the instructor, and it would not be allowed to continue. Yet, I have seen this exact instructional model implemented time and time again in DL, at both for-profits and large research universities.

    DL certainly has the potential to be as good as B&M, but, because the standards of acceptable instruction in DL are lower, it is unfortunately frequently inferior.
     
  13. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    What a fantastic thread! So many great issues to respond to here that I almost do not know where to begin. In the two decades plus as a professional in instructional technology & distance learning, I have dealt with (and continue to deal with) all of the issues discussed above and have done so at public, private and for-profit institutions.

    For of all, to answer Michael's initial question: Sometimes DL is better, sometimes it is worse (e.g. for those who are going to school to fulfill a social need) and most of the time it is equivalent.

    As far as student achievement, we have nearly a century of studies comparing F2F and "mediated" instruction showing, by and large, no difference between the two. During the past couple of decades, the focus has been on online instruction. There is NO body of empirical evidence showing the inferiority of learning online. Any studies to the contrary have been opinion polls, not measures of student achievement. Most students can learn just as well online.

    The problems with DL brought up (teaching quality, course design, use of adjuncts, lack of resources, students who are motivated more by salary increases than knowledge increases, cheating, etc.) all exist at B&M institutions.

    Standards for acceptable instruction for DL should be no lower than for B&M. In fact, I can evaluate the teaching quality of my faculty with more completeness and accuracy than a Dean over a B&M program, as I have the ability ot view and track all instruction and interactions that go on in an online class (that is NEVER done in a F2F class).
     
  14. Thanks, Dr. P. I was hoping you would chime in. Your insights are always appreciated.
     
  15. telefax

    telefax Member

    Exactly.

    RFValve and Vincey37 make some excellent points re. DL in principle and the frequent DL reality.



    If DL oponents want to argue equality, I respectfully suggest some of them stop attacking a B&M straw man. There’s a continuous stream of rhetoric suggesting that all B&M education consists of vast lecture classes where anyone could attend without the teacher realizing it, where the other students are unintelligent and talk to hear themselves because have issues, and being on campus is only a benefit for young people who need structure. While I’m sure this is true some places, this portrayal ignores the positive experiences of many other people, who believe that their intelligent peers raised the standard of classroom discussion, who learned in small seminar discussion classes or direct tutoring, and who found benefit in being immersed in an academic environment where they had all the resources they wanted at hand. They’ll hear their experience misrepresented, and tune out on the conversation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2010
  16. MISin08

    MISin08 New Member

    My niece is in some fusion of Anthropology and Archeology that doesn't exist in DL AFAIK and would be difficult to do on your own outside of a college. She'll spend a semester+ in Israel on digs this year. And she gets to play hockey when here in the US. She's out from under the parents' thumb, too. For this kind of college experience B&M can't be beat. DL allows for other unique as well as vanilla college experiences all very conveniently. At 20 I would have loved an experience like my niece's, but for me, now, the DIY aspect of planning my degree and picking schools from all over the country to get just what I want and spend <$5K after tuition reimbursement has been great.

    Phillip
     
  17. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Hear, hear! I agree that too much of the argument on both sides is based on "straw man". No, not all B&M courses are boring lectures and not all online classes are correspondence/independent study courses.

    DL programs exist, by and large, to provide opportunities for those who, for whatever reason, are not served by traditional B&M programs. They do not exist to prepare science professionals who need extensive laboratory experience (another straw man, since these programs do not exist online), but they are fine for the general student who can learn the required content via a virtual lab or one done at home. They do not exist, by and large, to prepare people for their first full-time tenure-track assistant professor position, but that are quite useful for the working faculty member who wishes to achieve the terminal degree to advance in the professional while continuing to work.

    Does everyone accept a DL degree as equivalent to a B&M degree? No. Is the level of acceptance rising each year? Yes.
     
  18. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Thank you, Michael. I always appreciate the insights of my colleagues here at Degreeinfo. That is why I keep coming back. If anything that I can scribble out is helpful to someone, then it is worth it to me.
     

Share This Page