How Prestige Is Harvard Extension?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by sshuang, Mar 3, 2009.

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  1. NMTTD

    NMTTD Active Member

    Then he should know better than to say HES is substandard just because its online. Seems to me the entire basis for him, and others, thinking HES is inferior to Harvard College is because it isnt as selective. But it IS selective in that it has several stringent criteria that have to be met before you can be accepted in the degree program. Its not like you can just go online, apply, and boom you're in. There's several things that have to happen first. And I don't see how he can say the academics are inferior to Havard College. HES is part of Harvard. It is 1 of the 12 schools that make up Harvard University. So how can a part of Harvard be inferior to Harvard? Its all part of Harvard!!!
     
  2. NMTTD

    NMTTD Active Member

  3. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Because the people that teach Harvard College and Harvard GSAS are generally full-time employees of the school and are either tenured or tenure-track and doing research in the fields they're teaching in.

    While there are tenured Harvard faculty teaching at the HES, you'll find that most/many of the instructors are lecturers that hold other jobs and are not on the full-time payroll of Harvard College or GSAS. It can be difficult to ensure that the people teaching your courses meet the standard of the actual HC/GSAS faculty.

    So there is a quality difference in terms of instruction and there is a difference in the perception of the degree as a result. It may be minor, it may be major, but it's there. Therefore in the strictest sense of the term sub-standard with Harvard College and GSAS used as the baseline, the term fits.

    Does that explain it for you sufficiently or do I need flash cards and a speak and spell?

    IT
     
  4. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

  5. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    Where did AUTiger00 say that? I can't find a single place where he said anything of the sort.

    Again, where exactly did AUTiger00 say that? Are you confusing his posts with someone else's posts? I have absolutely no idea where you are coming from here.

    The one thing that AUTiger00 said is that if you are getting a degree from HES, even though you have no interest in the subject, just to get the Harvard name, then you are an idiot. You know what? I agree. I CAN'T STAND people like that. Thankfully, most of them wash out and never even pass the 3 admissions courses. However, that doesn't stop these douchebags from bragging to everyone that they "went to Harvard" even though they just took a few classes at HES and were never admitted to any degree program.

    As a student at HES, I think that one should chose the school if and only if it matches your needs. It fine if you consider the stature of the university, but to pursue a degree SOLELY because of name recognition/prestige bothers me. These same (thankfully few) folks who do this are also the one's who try to obscure the fact that they went to HES. I have seen people try to list taking graduate business courses at HES as "pursuing an MBA at Harvard University".
     
  6. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    I am quoting your above post because you are essentially stating AUTiger00's exact position. You seem to be in 100% agreement with him (besides the whole ASU tier one thing). What exactly are you disagreeing with?
     
  7. Koolcypher

    Koolcypher Member

    +1, man I wish we had "liked" buttons, oh well. I agree 100%:headbang:
     
  8. NMTTD

    NMTTD Active Member

    First of all, ITJD does not need to be rude in his responses. No wonder he gets along so well with AUTiger. I guess anyone who disagrees with them automatically deserves to be disrespected.

    Second, if anyone cares to go back and read ALL of the posts here, it was said many times by AUTiger that HES work is not as rigorous as "real" Harvard college work. And I just dont see that. I don't see how having professors that teach at HES, industry professionals, and professors from other top rated colleges is somehow inferior to Harvard College. Again, HES is 1 of the 12 schools that make up Harvard University. SO there will be standards that have to be kept in order to maintain the rep and traditions of Harvard.

    Third, I never argued that anyone going to HES or any other school for no other purpose than for the name is an idiot. What I said was that it is wrong to assume that people who go to HES only go for that purpose.

    Fourth, I don't see how or why I will look back on my reasoning and my opinion of HES and see it as flawed. Again, I don't see HES any differently than I do any of the other IVY schools and top tier schools that offer DL classes and degrees. I think the part that's making everyone cranky is the fact that it's Harvard. It's ok for USC, Penn State, UMass, even Berkeley. But when you get to schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Duke, NYU, etc... I guess some people believe those schools should still be out of reach to non traditional learners. Good thing the rest of the world doesn't agree.
     
  9. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    1. People disagree with me all the time and I respect their opinions when they're well researched or experienced and founded.

    2. If someone gets in my grill and passionately defends a position that blatantly shows a lack of knowledge of what they're talking about after people who do know what they're talking about try to educate them, then yes, I'm going to be less than polite because it's the only thing that gets someone's attention.

    3. AU has consistently shown that he knows what he's talking about over the last few years I've been on the forum.

    4. You have consistently shown that you need to be educated about what you're posting about when I've read what you've posted on the forums. Therefore, no wonder I, in this case appear to side with AU, and you assume that I'm berating you for no other reason.

    In short, duh..

    Posting this again because you've obviously got blinders on to posts you don't want to internalize or read. In short, the true Harvard College faculty are at the top of their fields academically. HES faculty are not necessarily.
    ---
    Because the people that teach Harvard College and Harvard GSAS are generally full-time employees of the school and are either tenured or tenure-track and doing research in the fields they're teaching in.

    While there are tenured Harvard faculty teaching at the HES, you'll find that most/many of the instructors are lecturers that hold other jobs and are not on the full-time payroll of Harvard College or GSAS. It can be difficult to ensure that the people teaching your courses meet the standard of the actual HC/GSAS faculty.

    So there is a quality difference in terms of instruction and there is a difference in the perception of the degree as a result. It may be minor, it may be major, but it's there. Therefore in the strictest sense of the term sub-standard with Harvard College and GSAS used as the baseline, the term fits.
    ---

    Again, that doesn't mean that HES is a bad school. It's just not Harvard College and moreover, if you are part of the Harvard community proper; even they discriminate against HES even if its graduates get full alumni status.


    I agree it's wrong. You and I are cool there.

    I think that at some point in time you'll realize that the big thing the Ivies have going for them is their academic and social networks as well as the quality of education.

    We've already determined in the case of HES, that the faculty isn't the same. That will on some level affect educational quality even if it's only in a minor way.

    In terms of their academic and social networks, none of the Ivies see their continuing educational options as being true to their academic core so to say that the schools are actually in reach to non-traditional learners is false to begin with.

    What's actually available in layman's terms is something like the generic brand of Cap'n Crunch cereal. It tastes like Cap'n Crunch, it may look like Cap'n Crunch but if you tried to pass off the generic as Cap'n Crunch.. your kids know it isn't and everyone with the real stuff knows you're eating the cheap stuff. Whether that matters to you or not is important only on a case-by-case basis.

    With some stuff (like cereal) it probably doesn't matter much. But when you're talking about something that defines who you are (and going to Harvard proper does change you) it's really, really important. That's why people get annoyed about the comparison. The experiences aren't the same. Logically, if they were, people wouldn't be lying about where they got their degree from after they got it, or selectively name dropping.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2012
  10. NMTTD

    NMTTD Active Member

    So sorry. Wasnt aware I came across as uneducated. I don't recall taking a stand on much of anything here besides this. So how I appear uneducated in the things I post about on here is beyond me. But you know what? I do think I will bow out of this forum. People here are way to judgmental, rude, and disrespectful when they think they are right about something. God forbid someone disagree. Nope, can't have that. I look at something differently, I question things, and for that I'm uneducated. Ok then. Enjoy your clique. God help any new people who come and question...or dare to disagree...with any of you. I get so tired of seeing people get dismissed, disrespected, put down, argued with, and treated like idiots just because they like a certain school or degree or have certain goals. Its ridiculous. I've tried to be nice, I've tried to be helpful, I've tried asking questions. And I get talked down to, my posts get picked apart, and I get disrespected. Ok then. It's been real. Adios.
     
  11. Koolcypher

    Koolcypher Member

    Now. now, lets take a deep breath and stay calm, you do not need to leave. You do bring something to the table, we all do, no need to let a lively disagreement get in the way. One thing about this forum is that members, like every other human being, don't always see eye-to-eye, and that is a good thing, it keeps things interesting. However, this does not mean that we personally attack noobs, unless you are a spammer of course, other than that we are good down-to-earth folk around here. so pick up your favorite adult drink -- raise it up, and let bygones be bygones. :hug::smile::friday::beerchug:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2012
  12. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    I challenge you to show me where I ever said that. If you can I will apologize.
     
  13. Sauron

    Sauron New Member

    Heaven help you that your non-tenured Harvard instructor instructor is Paul Bamberg or some horrible flunky professor from MIT or Boston University. Is HES and their mission so horrible to denigrate a fellow degreeinfo member for their choice in school?

    Around here it seems like people get kudos for finding the least rigorous, low cost school that no one has heard of in BFE or of marginally suspicious accreditation. When someone chooses HES because it is academically rigorous, and would probably take longer to complete they are ridiculed of for seeking the most academically challenging education they can find. What kind of BS is this and why do the moderators not chime in? Do your fucking job guys and gals.

    NMTTD bowed out with grace and I respect him for that. For all the HES haters, keep hating. I hope every HES degree conferred adds a wrinkle of frustration and year less to your life. Feel free to flame me; I won't argue with idiots, Harvard educated or otherwise.
     
  14. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    I'll say it again, show me where I belittled HES. You can look at old posts by me and see that I speak highly of the school and didn't demean it in any of my posts in this thread. You're an angry little guy.
     
  15. scottae316

    scottae316 New Member

    Actually to earn a ALM from HES most of the course work must be taught by Harvard faculty according to the degree requirements that HES lists. I am not saying that all HES faculty are the top professors at Harvard, but most are up to Harvard standards.
     
  16. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    Correction. They are up to Harvard Extension standards. There is a distinction. For example, the lecturers for HES's business courses would not be invited to teach a course at HBS. you can argue it all you want, doesn't make it any less true.
     
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    As an aside, in this thread people have mentioned rankings from U.S. News, Atlantic Monthly, and Shanghai Jiao Tong University, and they're all arbitrary, so taking them particularly seriously is not really recommended.
     
  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I may have read through this thread once upon a time. Maybe I even responded in some way, I don't know. I'm responding now because it seems to me that this is a kind of archetypal thread.

    I think it's a good question. Is an HES degree held in the same esteem as a HC degree? The same question could be asked a different way. Is a Troy DL degree held in the same esteem as a Troy "butt in seat" degree? The same question could be asked about Peru, North Dakota, Alaska, Umass or any other school that we discuss. Is the DL degree seen as being equivalent to the "butt in seat degree?"

    Some people are afraid that the answer is "no." They want to know, "Does it say DL on the diploma?" because they're afraid that there will be some discrimination against them in the job market or maybe they just don't know if they can brag. If I get a DL MPH from Johns Hopkins, can I brag? If I get an MBA from UMass online, do I need to hide the "online" part? There are endless examples.

    It's clear that DL is going to be an increasingly important componet to higher education into the foreseable future. You can waste your time worrying about the relativity of prestige or you can just get to work. Make your best deal and worry less about how others see you. They're all idiots after all.
     
  19. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Excellent points.

    Abner
     
  20. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    Actually, that brings up an observation that I made. One of the things that I have noticed is that HBS has so little involvement with HES. For example, amongst the management courses at HES, the closest affiliation with HBS is that some of the courses are taught by three retired HBS professors. I can't find any active HBS professors that teach at HES.

    Conversely, over half of the professors in the Computer Science Department have taught and/or are currently teaching HES courses. In fact, 3 of the 7 members of the ALM in IT advisory board are full professors in the CS department (including the department chair).

    On the ALM in Management Advisory Board, there is only one retired HBS professor. There is an active professor from the Economic department in the College/GSAS. There is a professor from HSPH as well. There is even an active professor from Sloan on their board. But current HBS profs seem absent.

    This isn't meant to knock the non HBS instructors currently teaching management courses at HES. I am strongly considering flying in for a few of the management courses, even AFTER I graduate, because the topics are interesting and the instructors have real world experience. I just thought that it was odd that there were no current HBS instructors.

    Now that you have left HBS, you wouldn't by any chance be able to give us the inside scoop on this phenomena, would you? :)
     
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