EdD in Counselor Ed vs Counseling Psych

Discussion in 'Nursing and medical-related degrees' started by swoerner, Oct 12, 2007.

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  1. swoerner

    swoerner New Member

    Greetings, fellow DL'ers! I haven't posted here in several years, but you may remember last time I was considering DL programs in mental health, either SW, psyc or counseling. I finally decided on Seton Hall's online Counseling program, and completed it this past semester, with an MA. I am continuing an internship and the required additional 12 credits to add up to 60 for licensure as an LPC.

    I want more training/education, and in an ideal world would see myself working in a university counseling center, counseling and training other counselors, or in a group practice, doing training/teaching as well. Money and time are now becoming an issue, as I left my IT job in Feb to take the plunge and complete internships. So far Argosy looks to be a good possibility because they seem cheaper at 50K than either Capella or Fielding, which seem to be the other front runners. Argosy offers a CACREP compliant EdD in counselor education, and a non-APA accredited EdD in counseling psyc. I like the material in the psyc program, but the counselor Ed EdD seems to be more of a door opener into teaching in one of the new counseling programs being started all over the place.

    I think the Counselor Ed one may be more wise, but I will miss the focus on therapy theories/techniques, and fear a college counseling center may prefer counseling psyc, even if not APA approved..


    What say you all?

    Scott Woerner
    MA Counseling, Seton Hall University
     
  2. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

    I would opt for a psych. doctorate that is state license eligible if I were you.

    Tom
     
  3. simon

    simon New Member

    I agree with Tom. Ed.D programs in Counseling or Counseling Ed. do not have much clout in the mental health profession compared to a doctorate in Psychology that leads to state licensure to practice as a Psychologist.
     
  4. BlackBird

    BlackBird Member

    Go for their APA accredited Psy.D. versus your doctorate of education. It will get you farther. Best even yet, is to get a Ph.D. that is APA accredited (Clinical Psych) if possible. A Ph.D. in clinical psych that is APA stamped is more powerful than a Psy.D. of the same nature (APA) and even more powerful than a Ph.D. in Counselor Education (CACREP) and more than an Ed doc in Counselor Education.

    The Counselor Ed doctorate is primarily most viable if you are going to teach at an institution other masters level counselors, otherwise it has less appeal than a Clinical psych doctorate. A Counselor Ed. doctorate is primarily about how to teach counselors and little about how to do clinical/therapeutic treatment as would be your psych doctorate.

    It appears that the pecking order is Clinical Ph.D. => Clinical Psy.D.=> Ph.D. Counselor Ed => Ed.D. Counselor Ed
     
  5. swoerner

    swoerner New Member

    Thanks to all for posting. I think I was a bit affected by many of the new counselor ed programs that are more focused on CACREP than APA. And truly I am more interested in psych at this point than counselor ed. To my knowledge there is only one DL APA approved psych program of any sort, and that's Fielding. It's an interesting program but seems long and really expensive. So I may well look for something local and try to figure out how to afford it without working full time.

    I've looked back on my posts from 2001 and realize how much time has passed since I started this quest. I'm proud to have gotten as far as I have been able to, and thanks for the feedback on the way.
    Scott
     
  6. mattiberry85

    mattiberry85 New Member

    Okay, while I know this post is VERY OLD, I do want to post for future readers. For a university counselor center or community mental health agency, the only time a doctorate in counseling psychology will have more "weight' is if you are able to obtain licensure in psychology. Otherwise, it won't really matter. If you are ever intending on teaching at a CACREP accredited program, you will have to have a doctorate in CES. CACREP has recently mandated that all new faculty have a doctorate in CES.

    The only time that a PhD will be more appealing over a PsyD in terms of Psychology is if there will be research involved. Most universities will typically hire PhD's over PsyD's, but there are many PsyD's in academia. Outside of research (and to a certain extend, academia), the PsyD and PhD are not any different and within the field, are not viewed any differently.
     
  7. mattiberry85

    mattiberry85 New Member

    Counseling Psych V CES

    Okay, while I know this post is VERY OLD, I do want to post for future readers. For a university counselor center or community mental health agency, the only time a doctorate in counseling psychology will have more "weight' is if you are able to obtain licensure in psychology. Otherwise, it won't really matter. If you are ever intending on teaching at a CACREP accredited program, you will have to have a doctorate in CES. CACREP has recently mandated that all new faculty have a doctorate in CES.

    The only time that a PhD will be more appealing over a PsyD in terms of Psychology is if there will be research involved. Most universities will typically hire PhD's over PsyD's, but there are many PsyD's in academia. Outside of research (and to a certain extend, academia), the PsyD and PhD are not any different and within the field, are not viewed any differently.
     
  8. warguns

    warguns Member

    EdD Counseling

    The first thing to do is check the requirements for licensing in the state where you want to work. Some states don't regulate "counselors" hardly at all, others have very strict requirements (usually imposed after a critical mass gets their license when it was easy and then demand that standards be raised, thereby limiting competition.

    My opinion is always that when you're considering a type of employer (like a college counseling center) ask them!
     
  9. BlackBird

    BlackBird Member

    Warguns, keep in mind that for all that work, get a Ph.D. instead of a Doctor of Education. Your three options are: Ph.D. (or Psy.D. in Clinical Psych with APA accreditation. The problem with his is you have to give in to the racket and game of these institutions who will only transfer about 6 semester credits. So almost all your classes will be repeated that you took in the Masters degree. Another unfortunate thing is that you will have to do all over all your clinical hours. I have complained to the APA president on this only to get rebuffed with professional "crap" and sidestepping this Godfather reality. Getting your Clinical Psych doctorate will mean you will graduate an old man because of repeating classes and doing all over your clinical hours, not to mention you will also take a bunch of clases in psych testing, if you like that linear world. Your second option is to get a Ph.D. in Counselor Education. which qualifies you to teach in many of the CACREP grad schools... that's the trend now. CACREP is to Masters counseling degrees as what APA is to Clinical Psychology degrees, here in the USA. It has gotten very political. There are many good online programs in this. Your third option is to get an academic Ph.D. with no focus on further licenses. I did that and concentrated in Family Psychology. I already had a license on the Masters level. I found a school that took a full year of my two years of Masters work.

    If you decide to go for a Clinical Psych doctorate, I would not do the Psy.D. because I consistently see the grads being pushed down the food chain under the Ph.D. guys. I typically see Psy.D.'s being given the job that the Ph.D.'s don't want... clinical supervision classes and few actual hardcore courses. It is just a trend I've been seeing for the last 10 years or so.

    Best regards to you!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2014

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