CCU international graduates

My point exactly, it is not really the NA/RA issue that will be raised in academic selection but the reputation of the institutions where the candidate has worked or gotten his or her education (besides multiple issues as publications, teaching experience, etc).

As the academic community knows very well the number of Universities conducting relevant research worldwide. It would become apparent that more than one member of a hiring committee should be aware of a foreign institution if it has some reputation in the field being hired. If the candidate has worked in prestigious institutions, the origin of the PhD would become less of an issue.

When it comes to CCU, I would think that in the event that someone applies to a faculty position in Canada with this degree, unless the individual already worked at prestigious institutions or has impressive research the hiring committee would not be able to determine the quality of the candidate as the school is only known in the DL circles.

I would think that in this case, the hiring committee would keep the resume of the CCU graduate in the lower priority pile. If there is no one available to teach a course and an individual shows experience in the field and some teaching experience, he or she might still be considered in spite of being a CCU graduate and the status of school verified before an offer can be issued. However, this happens rarely if ever.

 

And methinks a little more disclosure might be in order here . . .

I do not find worthingco's position surprising, since his current enrollment is at a school that might be called "Cal Coast East."

Here's what I wrote about Andrew Jackson University in the last edition of NIFI. Keep in mind that I limited my review of the school back then to its theological programs, and that the following was current at the time I wrote it (1995). Like CCU, AJU also went on to receive DETC accreditation, which may help to explain why I do not hold DETC in high regard.

Nothing personal, worthingco, but if the shoe fits, you'll be in the same boat as CCU grads.

 

Do you have anything current to write or do you just cling to the 1990s? A lot has happnded since '95. You might want to bring yourself up-to-speed. I'm sure the people on this board are quite familiar with your stance on CCU and other DECT-accredited schools. That's OK...everyone is entitled to an opinion - even you Steve.

What I find amusing though is that you don't have any problem criticizing certain schools yet your own PhD is from a 4th-tier school - one that that was placed on probation by its accreditor. Nothing personal Steve...but if the shoe fits. I agree - disclosure is good.

 

Steve isn't biased! He not only rags on DETC schools, he also dumps on his own alma matta -- The Union Institute. Here's what he had to say about Union at DegreeDiscussion.com on Mon Jan 22, 2007:

 

The ministry of education has nothing to do with determing the worthiness of a credential when community colleges hire faculty, at least in Ontario. Perhaps in Quebec this is the case (for those who are not Canadian CEGEPS are unique to the province of Quebec) but I cannot speak to that issue.

Community Colleges are responsible for determining the credential. My college uses WES as their evaluation service or if from the states we look at any USDOE or CHEA sanctioned accreditor. In fact the College I work for quite happily pays part of the tuition fee from CSU and will cover 50% of the fees for an EdD from Harrison Middleton which is the other DETC body that offers doctorates during the trial phase.

 

boy am I confused

 

What are your future plans? Why do you need a degree?


Abner

 

In Quebec is the Minister that checks your education, then do go for RA or DETC accreditation as they have their own database. If the school is no there, they will ask you for documentation, etc. My undergraduate is not Canadian but has American Regional Accreditation, as the school was not in the database, they asked for catalogs. course descriptions, proof of library, etc before they could give me an assessment. The final assesment is that my undegraduate engineering degree was not equivalent to a Quebec engineering degree because the number of years to become an engineer in quebec is 17 instead of 16 in the US, however, I was given 3 out 4 years of the bachelors for salary purposes. They also claimed that my University lacked some courses that are normally covered in Quebec.

So this was a case where RA was not really taken one to one for Canadian Standards. It seems that Ontario follows the American model of WES that in my opinion is not reliable as I have seen many letters from WES where they consider mills equivalent to Canadian degrees. As they are a business, they are more concerned about making money than actually checking things properly. But this is meat for another thread.

 

Second grade option

For the benefit of those who would be interested, I did a quick google search and found that a number of schools offer a second grade option to improve GPA's; UMASS, University of Arizona, St. Ambrose, University of Iowa, UKY, California State University, Oregon State University, Florida International University, University of Wisconsin (Washington County), and more.

The subject of open book exams has been discussed here extensively and it's not uncommon either.

Well, I have to run...

Pepe

 

I curious, could you provide links?

 

Not exactly the same, this second grade option is for those that retake the course normally because the failed the course. Since a F grade normally would kill a GPA enough to jeopardize graduation, some schools have this option so the students can make up the failing grades with other grades. This is normally reduced to a maximum number of courses and normally only available for undergraduate programs for those that retake the course not just decide to write it again to improve grades like CCU's policy.

The CCU does not require you to retake the course but allows you to exercise the right to take the exam again to get a better grade and has not limit for the number of courses and this for both graduate and undergraduate. Basically, I take the exam and end with C and the pay more money to take another exam to end with an A. Since these exams are multiple choice, most likely the second time the student takes them the questions might not even change or be very similar. I would be happy to see a link of a serious university that would allow a similar policy for graduate students.

And yes, multiple choice open examinations are not acceptable for graduate study in my opinion. No matter how hard or challenging these are.

I think that no matter how much people in this forum defend CCU, it might be a legal accredited degree but not really at the same level of traditional universities.

 

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Using your logic, many would say DL is non-traditional, and therefore not at the same level.

Have a good one!

Abner

 

hmmm I used to go to a well known college in Massachusetts, and our online classes were open-book exams, and multiple choices. Infact some of our classes were a joke with open-book exams, finals.

Anyway, I hate how some people like you think. You are the type of person who would laugh in someones face if they showed up with a CCU degree, and obviously chose someone else for a job, who has a degree from a much more well known and expensive school.

I on the other hand dont believe that a degree makes a person, it's someones passion for a particular job, but whatever, you are entitled to your opinion.

 

I would never laugh at someone with a CCU degree, a degree is not everything and as said, if you are already established in your profession the CCU might do just fine for you. However, If you expect people to tell you that CCU is respected and fine institution then you are not in the right place.

Open book multiple choice are not bad for undergraduate but not acceptable for graduate work. Again, my opinion as I never had the luxury of such exams in my graduate work.

 

I think you are just contradicting what others are debating so much here, that multiple choice open book exams are hard, challenging and as difficult as regular close book non multiple choice exams.

It is never about expensive vs cheap schools, UNISA is a lot cheaper than CCU but never questioned its rigor.

 

Don't put all of CCU's graduate programs in one basket. Shotojoku posted that he was considering the Education Masters but found out that it was exclusively writing assignments (several hundred of them if I remember correctly).

As far as open book exams go, I will admit that memorization skills are just not something I possess. That's probably why I never got my degree when I was younger. I was a terrible student and struggled mightily in high school.

Open book exams enable me to better absorb the material. Of course, others' mileage may vary but I don't think I'm being shortchanged in any way by doing open book exams. I'm not cutting any corners in my program at all. I read the chapters, take the self tests (without the book first) and then look up the ones I got wrong. I do the same with the unit and final exams. If that makes my degree less worthwhile, I can live with that.

I would also never consider paying CCU to retake an exam to improve my grade. If I got a C (which I did in one course that I really struggled with) then that's what I got.

I'm going back and forth about taking the Education Masters when I'm through. I wish I could find someone in that program to speak to about the exact structure of that program.

 

Actually, it is the same. Remember, CCU courses are self- paced so you would have to review (retake) the course before your next exam. On the other hand, traditional universities require you to sit through the semester before retaking the exam.

Early in this thread you compared CCU with some traditional schools in Canada. Your reasons for doing that are beyond me. It’s like comparing CCU with UCLA or UT. I haven’t read anywhere in this forum one single thread where an individual claims that a degree from CCU would carry the same weight as a degree from a traditional, well-known university. Students who look for nontraditional education are not your typical Waterloo or UoT applicants. I will be the first one to tell that a DL only school (NA or RA) is not the best choice if you need to impress a prospective employer or seek school name recognition and prestige.

You also seem to have a problem with multiple choice exams (?). Before CCU, I attended Mount San Antonio College in Walnut, California: www.mtsac.edu

Also, Embry Riddle Aeronautical University:
www.erau.edu

They both tested knowledge through multiple choice exams and essays, just like CCU does.

For me, the open book modality offers a better opportunity to learn the subject because understanding the course content becomes more important than memorizing it.

Here are some more schools that offer second grade options. I understand that some of the administrative procedures vary from school to school, but the general idea (improving GPA) is the same:

UC Davis:

http://registrar.ucdavis.edu/UCDWebCatalog/academicinfo/grades.html

University of Iowa:

http://www.clas.uiowa.edu/students/academic_handbook/viii.shtml

Sunny Brockport:

http://www.brockport.edu/publications/yrtk/html/grades.html#gradingGR

Pepe