Tulane Professor Fired for Merely Possesing a "mill" Doctorate

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by friendorfoe, Feb 19, 2007.

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  1. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=2118434&nav=EyAzPPpK

    I thought this was unique due to the hiring parties stating that the instructor was hired because of his Masters degrees, not his doctorate but having the doctorate from LaCrosse got him fired and in their eyes, deligitimized his LSU and Loyola credentials.

    My problem is the headline which states that he was fired for having an "Online" degree........which in my eyes kind of shows a bit of bias does it not?
     
  2. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member


    Yeah, I noticed that. I agree it shows a negative bias. The story is about a UA degree, not the fact that it is online.


    Abner
     
  3. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Wow. That's totally irresponsible journalism, but not the first time for the Associated Press.

    Having said that, I think the writer(s) was probably too clueless to even realize what he/she was actually putting together. The unfortunate part, is that story is out all over the world now, and they'd never print a correction for something like that.

    It just pisses you off to see things like this.

    Edit: the story is from 2004, so hopefully it's been long forgotten.
     
  4. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

    just out curiousity, couldn't this guy transfer his credits from LSU to one of those recognized all but dissertation degree programs and receive his Ph D?

    Playing devil's advocate here, even some of the most educated folks don't understand our (the USA's) accreditation system. It is too messed up for most to try to make sense of it. The USDOE states that accreditation is voluntary, schools of higher education have the authority to operate automously, national accreditation is not the same as regional, even some regionals won't accept transfers from other regionals, States have the rights to authorize schools of post secondary education without federal involvement, and on and on and on. No wonder there are so many diploma mills and substandard schools. There is way too much smoke and mirrors and no one wants to take the bulls by the horns and change the awful mess. And btw, believe it or not, the WAUC is operating legitimately in the USA but the acceptability is up to others to accept or reject - info by FTC. What kind of nonsense is this when we know that the WAUC is deceiving folks all over the world. When they continue to allow Columbus U to keep its accreditation after several teachers stated that did not have to do any academic work at all to get their masters, actual students mind you, then that reveals the WAUC for what it is. Maxine Asher's money maker.

    How utterly sickening knowing that this is going on and the feds allow this. So, I would think that a Lacrosse U degree may be worthless, but it is not unlawful to have, but to use is another story.

    I kind of feel sorry for the poor guy. Maybe it was an honest misconception of Lacrosse by him. You know those schools talk a good game and can sucker well educated people into their web.
     
  5. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Hi Robbie - The answer to your question is no, at least if you're thinking about those British, Australian, South African research-based doctoral programs. You see, in those programs you simply write your proposal, do the research and then write the dissertation. There is no other coursework and so there is no need to transfer credits. Even if you did transfer credits it wouldn't decrease the amount of work in front of you. Beyond that I think the overall point you were making, "couldn't he have earned a legitimate degree some other way?" is without doubt a good question and the answer is obviously yes.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The "feds" allow it because they have no choice. Rights not specifically reserved in the U.S. Constitution for the federal government are delegated to the states and the people. Education, not mentioned in the Constitution, is one of them. The Feds usually attack fake schools through other criminal behavior, like interstate wire fraud.

    The question in this case isn't whether what the person did was lawful or not. Losing one's job is a civil matter, not a criminal one. In any profession, misrepresenting your qualifications should be grounds for adverse action. And presenting a "degree" from an outfit like Lacrosse seems to qualify (or disqualify!) here.

    But where is the line drawn? What if the degree was from the okay-not-a-diploma-mill-but-still-unaccredited California Coast University? Or how about the excellent-but-not-accredited Western Institute for Social Research? See how problematic this is? People can get burned by otherwise legitimate-but-unaccredited degrees. (Lacrosse, IMHO, doesn't reach that standard.)

    It's only on these fringes that the U.S. accreditation system--organically grown out of necessity--struggles. For the vast majority of consumers of higher education in the U.S.--students, their employers, and the general public--accreditation works just fine. (Not that it is without criticism in other areas, of course, like what it does and does not measure. But degree recognition works quite well.)

    Finally, what are "recognized all but dissertation degree programs"? In the U.S., no such programs exist at accredited universities. In foreign systems where the Ph.D. is awarded on the basis of the dissertation, one still does a complete doctoral program; it isn't likely previous doctoral work would help much. (A complete doctoral program under that system involves a much larger dissertation covering a lot of one's field, as opposed to the more narrowly focused U.S. dissertation that follows a set of coursework.)
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    Sorry to pick on what you wrote, please don't take it as a personal attack. But I can't agree with this, either.

    While I realize this is occasionally true for lay people, it is an excuse claimed by many who knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

    Furthermore, I don't buy it at all for someone who works in education. It is his professional responsibility to know these things and present legitimate, recognized credentials. He did not.
     
  9. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I'm afraid I have to cordially disagree. I even know one guy (being a diplomat, I shall not name names) who had significant experience in higher education that, just a few years back, was suckered in by MIGS, to the extent that he became their biggest shill. And is still in denial about it. :D

    But seriously, I have no major problem with the original article. After all, as a general principle, online programs do suck eggs . . . don't they? :p
     
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I'm in denial of nothing. Dr. Levicoff is in error, as he knows. And note that it is he who always, ALWAYS, hijacks discussion threads with posts like the one cited above. It is disappointing behavior for anyone participating in such things, and I respectfully suggest he remain on topic.
     
  11. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Excuse me . . . in denial of nothing?

    I'm merely suggesting, to paraphrase Dr. Douglas, that it was his professional responsibility to know these things and present legitimate, recognized credentials. He did not.

    Granted, he did go on to receive a doctorate from a legitimately accredited school (my own alma mater, in fact). But now he presumes to judge others by making a blanket statement that all people who blow it (like he did) are illegitimate in their motivation? I would agree that most are, but notall.

    As for his allegation that I am in error, the sordid history of Dr. Douglas and his involvement with MIGS is right in the archives of this forum. Res ipsa loquitur. :D
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Perhaps this thread has run its course. But with the continued hijacking of it, we'll likely not know.

    I firmly reject Dr. Levicoff's characterizations, and suggest he dare point them at another person invovled, Dr. Bear.
     
  13. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    I agree!

    The Chronicle of Higher Education

    http://chronicle.com/free/v50/i42/42a00901.htm

    What was sad IMHO were these comments from the dean of AACSB-accredited Valdosa State when confronted on one of his instructors having a mill PhD:

    Not uncommon for professors to have bogus credentials. From a dean of an AACSB school. Great.
     
  14. Denver

    Denver Member

    It was unfortunate. I live in New Orleans and I have met some of his former students – by all accounts he is a great teacher and restaurateur. (see below). I do not know if he is still in New Orleans post-Katrina.

    “Del Corral is also a successful entrepreneur, having opened the first of his two New York Pizza restaurants in New Orleans 24 years ago. He also has two master's degrees — one in finance from LSU and one in business administration from Loyola University.”
    http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=2118434&nav=EyAzPPpK
     
  15. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Gee, Rich, you realy are desperate, ne c'est pas?

    I have to reason to point anything at Dr. Bear. John has traditionally been more liberal than me on accreditation issues, but he has also been consistently open about every affiliation he has ever had (even when he has taken heat from the degree mills), which is more than I can say for you.

    Moreover, I'm not quite sure why you would want me to "point them" at John Bear, since he was one of your adjuncts at Union. Which is probably one of the few sound decisions you have made - anyone majoring in higher education would be lucky to have the privilege of having John on his or her doctoral committee. And, last I checked, John never enrolled in MIGS (or, since you have occasionally denied your enrollment, even applied to MIGS) nor did he ever shill for them.

    Sorry, Rich, I have nothing but good things to say about John (despite your vain attempt to cause a controversy), who is more authoritative when it comes to distance education than you and I could ever be combined. You made a good choice with him. Which is more than I can say for your other adjunct, one of the founders of the forcibly closed Columbia Pacific University... But that's another story. :D
     
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    As long-time readers know, Dr. Levicoff has a habit of hijacking threads to be personally insulting. And, as you'll also know, he has a strong desire to get in the last word. So I shall leave to him--and to your judgment about his behavior.
     
  17. APerson

    APerson New Member

    Interesting discussion - it would appear as if he could get a job with Capella University as they hire those who have bought their degrees from diploma mills. In fact, one of their instructors, Diane Stottlemyer, bought her bogus degrees from Lacrosse University and still works there. Her fake degrees were discussed awhile ago on this board - http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=851&page=2&highlight=stottlemyer. Capella has known about her fake degrees for years - unlike Tulane, which acted responsibly, Capella just lets her keep teaching.
     
  18. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member


    While I will not defend Capella for keeping Stottlemeyer on the Capella Faculty - according to HLC and by reading her bio, Stottlemeyer is qualified to teach at Capella in the capacity that she teachs in.

    A Person is attempting to insinuate that Capella makes it a regular practice to hire teachers from "diploma mills." Does A Person have more examples of this or is this an isolated incident with Capella?
     
  19. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    But, wasn't the Tulane professor also qualified to teach in his position with the legitimate credentials he has?
     
  20. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    As much as I respect Steve and generally give him a lot of leeway, I need to step in and say that personal attacks are not OK, and thread hijacking isn't appreciated either.

    I'm aware that I've been guilty of such behaviors here more than a couple of times myself (as has practically every long-term regular) but I would appreciate it if *everyone* who posts at DegreeInfo (and I include myself) would make an effort to keep things in a positive light.

    'Nuff said.
     

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