Is UK Apostille better than USA Apostille

Hi everyone,

I have questions about the validity of the apostille between UK and USA. I have checked the wiki and it shows that the nortary public in UK do authenticate the contents of documents before notarizing the documents.

Does that mean the apostilled educational documents in UK is more vaild than in USA? At least the Notary Public in UK do authenticate the contents of documents before sending them to be apostilled, unlike USA ones just check the seals and signatures of the documents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notary_public#England_and_Wales

 

I read the Wikipedia entry, but I suspect that the language being used there is inclusive of all the services provided by a notary, not the services provided in each transaction.

If you think about it, a notary would have no way of authenticating the validity of a document without extensive research; here's an example:

Suppose I prepare a document that says I am the new chairman of General Motors, whose position will be publicly announced next month. How in the heck is a notary expected to be able to determine the authenticity of that statement?

I don't think there's any difference between an apostille in the US or one from another country. If you are seeing otherwise, I suspect it's millspeak from some unwonderful institution trying to shore up its own nonexistent credibility.

 

For the purposes that you are describing they are both useless and so they are equal.

 

Thanks for quick reply. You described there is no differience of notary public in UK and USA. Then why an offical government in one country legalize and affix apostill to educational documents without authenticating the contents of documents, especially when an fake educational document is from a reputable institution or university? So what's the point for the notary service?

 

Apostiles do NOT indicate that a document such as a diploma or a deed or a contract is truthful, meaningful, or even legal. Notaries are in no position to make judgements about any of those things. Those judgements demand technical expertise and legal authority that notaries don't have. An apostile is simply telling you that it's more likely that a document is genuine. If it happens to be a degree-mill diploma, then it's a genuine degree-mill diploma.

That's wonderful to know, I guess.

 

I know an apostille not relate to the genuineness of a document, but the notary do provide the service to authenticate the contents of documents(especially in educational documents). Otherwise, I don't see any benifit for getting notarization and apostille for using documents oversea. And every country has to validate forein documents by its own authority. What I believe that at least the notary public authenticate the contents of a documents from a technical expertise and legal authority to verify educational documents and then to attach apostille for oversea use. Of cousre, applicants need to request the authentication service for their apostille.

 

It has no value. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nunca. Nothing.

 

I don't know what the underlying agenda is here, but an apostille simply verifies that a document is a document, and that the notary has verified the signatures of the people on the document. There is not, and never has been, any verification of the authenticity of the *contents* of the document.

There's a big difference between saying "yes, this is a piece of paper that says it's a college degree" and "Yes, this is a college degree from a credible school and you should recognize it. Apostilles do only the first, not the second. As such, they are completely worthless for validating the value or reputability of a degree.

No reputable school advertises or otherwise mentions apostille services associated with their degrees. They are unnecessary and worthless in this context.

 

I see your points. Now I learn Notary Public and Apostille are useless for educational documents. People only can get verification through their schools and legal authority. Then how ironic is that who check the contents of verification documents for oversea use? Still Notary Public or Apostille office? or the authory of foreign country which the documents are gonna be used in?

 

I feel like we're talking in circles here, but if you're talking about a US-based university verifying educational work done at another, overseas institution, generally the process is multi-step.

The first involves verifying the legitimacy of the institution itself, a process done by checking one or more recognized reference books. (search "GAAP" on this forum for more info)

The second involves getting certified transcripts from said school.

In many cases, there's an intermediate step, involving the services of a recognized third-party professional credential evaluator who is knowledgeable about educational processes in different countries. This individual or company reviews the transcripts of the foreign institution and and reports on the applicability of the education and credits to the US-based institution's programs.

So it is not simply a process of somebody looking over documents for authenticity, but a process of multiple people individually reviewing, evaluating, and determining the acceptability of educational study as it relates to US-based programs.

 

I would like to add that the third party usually NACES member foreign credential evaluation agency can and some time do contact the school in question overseas.

Number of such agencies only evaluate original document , they don't accept for final evaluation certified or apostle copies.

If documents are forged they notify the authorities, prospective employers, immigration etc.

If the document is from unrecognized possibly milled degree they some times provide unfavorite judgment and at times simply refuse to evaluate.

Vika has valid point,

In many other countries the Apostle has value as their department that evaluates foreign credentials uses and accepts such documents, they actually only accept apostle document that becomes a part of permanent record.
Most of the time when people immigrate these countries they make sure to get their degrees apostiled.

All it states that the person who provided apostiled looked at the copy and the original and that the copy is exact match of the original.

An Apostille is required for all types of documents that are to be used in foreign countries. This ensures that your document will be recognized as legitimate in all participating countries that are party to the Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement of Legalization for Foreign Public Documents.

 

Can you give us a list, or even a partial list of these countries?

 

Many of the former soviet union countries use such documents. Its in decline as this was a standard during the Soviet era.

I had to produce apostle copies of power of attorney and identity documents to my mother overseas.

My mother had to sent to Tel Aviv Apostilled copies of her Technikym diploma from Ukraine.

Israel - my friend Raffi had to porvide aposille document of his AAS degree in order to get registered in Israeli registry of Technicians and Handasaim.


Armenia

Italy

Kazakhstan - if you want to work there and your diploma from US you will need Apotille.

Ukraine

Countries in South America

Spain

Switzerland

Belgium


These services are very important to foreign students who study in US and then go back to their countries this is why esteemed universities such as DePaul University provide such services to their foreign graduates.

http://sr.depaul.edu/DegreesAndDiplomas/Diplomas/index.asp

DePaul prepares student record documents for you to request an apostille by the Secretary of State. An apostille is the legalization of a document for international use under the terms of the Hague Convention Abollshing the Requirement of Legalization for Foreign Public Documents. Documents which have been notarized by a notary public and then certified with a conformant apostille are accepted for legal use in all the nations that have signed the Hague Convention. apostilles can be requested at DePaul online. The fee for an apostille is $100 which includes the duplicate diploma fee, official transcript, notarization plus mailing to the address you request. Please verify the specific documents required by the country who is requesting them. Additional information is available on the U.S. Department of State website.

Questions?
Call DePaul Central at 312-362-8610 or Email [email protected]-------------

The only problem whit it is that thanks to the diploma mills that abuse the Hague Convention apostille service in order to provide legitimacy to their diplomas. As a result the whole service is suffering and looked down by people who see this service only as Diploma Mill trick.

 

The University of Alabama initiates the authentication process for diplomas and transcripts based upon written request of the graduate. The request must include graduates full name, student number, degree earned and date of graduation.

http://registrar.ua.edu/apostille_cert.html


The graduate should visit the Secretary of State website at sos.alabama.gov/AdminServices/Authentications.aspx to complete the form necessary for certification. The form, appropriate fees made payable by check to the Secretary of Sate and/or the Office of Probate Judge, and the appropriate mailing documents along with the written request for apostille certification should be mailed to The Office of The University Registrar, Box 870134, Tuscaloosa, AL 35487. The fee associated with the Secretary of State certification is stated on the web site form.


University of Pennsylvania

Apostille and Certification from the State of Pennsylvania
An Apostille is a seal that is used by foreign governments to assess the authenticity of an official signature and is recognized by a group of countries that are part of the Hague Convention. A Department of State certification performs a similar duty for a group of other countries.

The Office of the University Secretary can help you prepare and apply for either of these two seals. The University charges a $15 processing fee. The state charges a separate fee, per seal. This process usually takes 3-4 weeks. Printable form

For more information, please call 215-898-3553.

I forgot to add Korea

You want to teach English in Korea working for SMOE you will need to bring for the interview in the embassy an apostille of original diploma, it's now impossible to get an approved visa without an appossitled or original degree.

Many had to get their degree and transcript legalized to work for Dubai companies overseas.

 

Thanks so much for the updated and more complete information.

What a shame that the mills have taken a service that used to have a legitimate purpose and essentially resulted in creating a cloud over it.

 

As they have done with unaccredited degrees and even distance learning in general, at least to a degree (so to speak).

 

Somehow I have the feeling a diploma mill will join in soon exhorting the virtues of a Apostille.

 

Diploma from Diploma Mill with Apostille is still a diploma mill degree.

This only states that the Diploma is genuine document but its value is the value of the issuing institution.