Thousands attended protest organized by Russians on Facebook

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by decimon, Nov 1, 2017.

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  1. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  2. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

  3. jhp

    jhp Member

    I am trying to find the Russian link for BlackMattersUS, and the confusing cacophony of anti- pro- Clinton, Trump, Sanders...
    Google search of "BlackMattersUS russian link" gives https://twitter.com/cjcmichel/status/922925805511983104
    which leads to Think Progress https://thinkprogress.org/black-matters-us-site-90625b18f262/
    Think Progress article states that BlackMatterUS is anti-Clinton, pro-Sanders. There is no explicit evidence of Russian anything...
    - ' “Williams and Kalvin” account recently identified as backed by Russian operatives.'
    - link to “SKWAD 55” podcast is presumed proof of Russians.
    - yet, the proof is simply "contained a unique watermark and similar thematic elements – also spoke with a non-American accent, identifying himself only as “your boy, DJ Makunzie.”"
    The accent could have been African, or South American, we do not know. As far as "watermark and similar thematic elements" is way to simplistic to use as attribution. Web development is well known for incestual reuse of website frameworks, infrastructures, images, and more. If it was unique, then maybe.

    So... what gives? Much of what is in the media is garbage. Investigative, nay, real reporting is dead. Long live the infotainment tweets with no real evidence. As long as it tickles our ears, and riles our emotions, it is good! /s

    It would be more acceptable if the attributions would at least follow some scientific method, like APT descriptions.

    Here is one method of using attribution. Those who are in the field know that even these highly trusted reports are, at best 80% accurate.
    https://www.fireeye.com/current-threats/apt-groups.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2017
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    You probably missed the link to Russian news site, rbc.ru (this is or at least was reputable; a news outfit called RossBusinessConsulting. You can't be sure because a Russian business can be gutted by authorities and bought off by pro-Kremlin 2nd tier oligarchs at any moment). It has a lengthy investigative report, in Russian, about the work of the Saushkino Street troll farm (best known as "Agency of Internet Research", or colloquially just "Saushkino"), in St. Petersburg. Journalists claim to have a list of fake groups they got from a source, backed up by "screenshots" of internal communications. Much detail is provided.

    More importantly, Saushkino is notorious enough most RU-net users saw it first hand; reports are completely believable. Seriously, how hard do you think it is to organize a fake BLM rally? About as hard as a real one - not at all.
     
  5. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I believe it was Stalin who coined the term, "useful idiots".
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    The phrase is attributed to Lenin. It's an ancient technique; Putin's innovation is recruiting idiots from the Right as well as the Left. Jill Stein is a useful idiot. If no actual collusion is proven, Trump is also a useful idiot. They crawl both alt-Right and Sanders orbit, not to mention further in the fringes.
     
  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I was close.
     
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Quite.

    It's important to understand one need not to be an actual idiot to fall for this. Commies recruited some pretty big names to spread their messages; mostly in arts and academia. Walter Durante, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, famously wrote convincing articles denying Holodomor (mass starvation) in 1932-33; he was a classic useful idiot. Now, eg., Oliver Stone is one.
     
  9. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    I think Duranty (Durante now being with Mrs. Calabash) knew what he was doing. Why he did it is another question.

    But if the people ostensibly being used are idiots then what of the users? Are they not idiots for plunging themselves and those close to them into a hell?
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    So basically, in your book anyone who's not a Hillary cheerleader is a "useful idiot" for Putin's regime. Got it.
     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    No, Steve. Nice strawman, but no. A "useful idiot" is a Western person of some stature and prominence who gets manipulated by enemy intelligence (and in Russia, all of government and big business are intelligence assets) into unwittingly helping in propaganda efforts. Oliver Stone is such an obvious specimen that he's only effective inside Russia. Trump, absent further collusion proof, it squarely this. So is Jill Stein:

    Russian Environmentalists Brand U.S. Green Party Putin

    Frankly, if you think one can be seated at Putin's table in public without the proverbial KGB wanting to use that person in some way, you are naïve. As naïve an Stein, who wanted to use her speech at RT junket to "convince Putin to work for peace". That borders with being an actual idiot.

    There are many non-Hillary peeps who are probably not useful idiots. Ted Cruz appears to be entirely home-grown species of reptile. "Establishment Republicans" are not that, for all their faults. McCain is obviously not one, given his well-earned scorn towards all things Russia. Frankly, I do not see Bernie as one - he has enough of his own agenda not to have much bandwith for pushing Russia crap. OTOH, his orbit and especially fan club has fair share of RT-guzzing lefties - as that part of the spectrum historically has been since the freakin' 1920ies. So you're off. You appear to minimise the extent of Russian influence - ironically, that is what Russia wants people to believe.
     

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