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  1. #1
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    UN council to discuss report calling on Canada to address anti-black racism


  2. #2
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    "History informs anti-black racism and racial stereotypes that are so deeply entrenched in institutions, policies and practices, that its institutional and systemic forms are either functionally normalized or rendered invisible, especially to the dominant group," the UN officials wrote
    I can totally believe this. Canadians tend to not notice any issue of this kind about themselves. National myth that we're perfect on all things tolerant and multicultural doesn't help.
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    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    I can totally believe this. Canadians tend to not notice any issue of this kind about themselves. National myth that we're perfect on all things tolerant and multicultural doesn't help.
    So -- you've noticed, eh? Indeed it is a myth. I see it every day - various groups. To quote a character from a Neil Bissoondath novel, "Canada racialist as hell." Bissoondath is a Trinidadian-Canadian writer. Old article by him here, on this very topic. https://newint.org/features/1998/09/05/multiculturalism 17 years after the article -- we've gone nowhere.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 09-26-2017 at 11:37 AM.

  4. #4
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    This is a worldwide problem. Perhaps better in some places, perhaps just better hidden. It's not really a surprise, is it?
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  5. #5
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    This is a worldwide problem. Perhaps better in some places, perhaps just better hidden. It's not really a surprise, is it?
    YES, and I'll be first to admit that Canada is doing better than most. However, it'll do even better if it were more capable of admitting to their own flaws.
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  6. #6
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Well, we seem to be trying, at least. We DO have hate speech legislation, which I approve. I've heard from an American clergyman who thinks that's a violation of free speech and that hate speech only hurts people "who choose to let it hurt them." That's fatuous, to say the least - evil, to say more. Far later than it should be, I agree, but we DO have the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls enquiry. It's a tragedy that we need this - but at least we have it. A 51-year-old guy I no longer talk to asked me: "why should the police investigate? They're all drug addicts and/or prostitutes. Their lives aren't worth much, anyway."

    I wish the Enquiry members well in their task - but it seems they're off to a rocky start.

    J.

    PS - I applaud our Prime Minister's attempt to make a Cabinet that "looks like Canada," although I sometimes wonder how aware he is of the discrimination faced daily by so many in Canada.
    Last edited by Johann; 09-26-2017 at 12:16 PM.

  7. #7
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    We DO have hate speech legislation, which I approve.

    Who is to decide what is hate speech? The moment you open that door you get the absurdity of such as microaggression.

    What do you do when your daughters are taken into sex slavery and you can't say a word about that without being fined or jailed for hate speech?

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  9. #8
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    Who is to decide what is hate speech?
    It's clearly defined under Canadian law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_s...laws_in_Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by decimon
    What do you do when your daughters are taken into sex slavery and you can't say a word about that without being fined or jailed for hate speech?
    I've never thought about it - because it doesn't (and won't ever) happen under the Canadian legislation. We're not perfect - but we are civilized beyond this point, I would hope. If I actually needed to think about this - I'd be long gone from here, and so far, I have no inclination to move whatsoever. There is (to me) a distinction between repression and protection.

    Johann
    Last edited by Johann; 09-26-2017 at 01:50 PM.

  10. #9
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    It's the same "freedom" speech I get thrown at me time after time, when I talk about our gun control or health care. People get all up in my George Foreman about it, on both topics. Guns and hate speech - words are weapons. We have laws to aid in deterring brainless people (who exist in all societies) from doing/saying harmful things they should be mentally strong enough to refrain from doing/saying - but aren't. It's an argument I'll never win here -- but our system works for me. Not perfectly, but better than anything else I've seen.

    J.

  11. #10
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    It's clearly defined under Canadian law.
    I've never thought about it - because it doesn't (and won't ever) happen under the Canadian legislation.

    It also won't happen in the UK where it's happening. Or on Duh Continent where it's happening. And if I were there then I would be punished for saying what is happening is happening.

  12. #11
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    We have laws to aid in deterring brainless people...

    Hate speech.

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    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Sad to say, trafficking is happening everywhere, as you say. I don't dispute that. However, I was unable to find any instances of UK or European hate-speech trials/convictions for disclosing trafficking incidents. I can see how someone might get into trouble somewhere if he/she alleged that all of - or a high number of members of a specific religion or ethnicity were sex-traffickers. The finger would have to point at innocent people, and/or the accusation would have to be accompanied by incitement to violence.

    Speaking of incitement to violence, I was in a barbershop a few years back. Barber from Sudan. Said "why don't we do to gays what we did back in Africa - just kill them all?" I left, bought clippers and did my own hair. It's easy - I haven't got very much hair and this has saved me hundreds over the past few years. The Sudan Barber's shop is closed now. I think he's gone back to Africa. Probably happier there.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 09-26-2017 at 04:15 PM.

  14. #13
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Sad to say, trafficking is happening everywhere, as you say. I don't dispute that. However, I was unable to find any instances of UK or European hate-speech trials/convictions for disclosing trafficking incidents.

    This is not about sex slavery but it makes a point. From 2015: U.K. Criminalization of Speech Is Really Starting to Scare Me - Hit & Run : Reason.com

    Listen, the UK police have been afraid to touch the sex slavery right under their noses.

    Besides, socialists don't care about laws. From the New York State Constitution:

    Freedom of speech and press; criminal prosecutions for libel]

    §8. Every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his or her sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right; and no law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press. In all criminal prosecutions or indictments for libels, the truth may be given in evidence to the jury; and if it shall appear to the jury that the matter charged as libelous is true, and was published with good motives and for justifiable ends, the party shall be acquitted; and the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the fact. (Amended by vote of the people November 6, 2001.)

    https://www.dos.ny.gov/info/constitution.htm

    From the NYC socialists:

    https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/cchr/dow...D_Card2015.pdf

  15. #14
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    So -- you've noticed, eh? Indeed it is a myth. I see it every day - various groups. To quote a character from a Neil Bissoondath novel, "Canada racialist as hell." Bissoondath is a Trinidadian-Canadian writer. Old article by him here, on this very topic. https://newint.org/features/1998/09/05/multiculturalism 17 years after the article -- we've gone nowhere.

    J.
    Not sure I like that article very much. I'm a hyphen-Canadian, and I don't see why my enjoying pierogies in public twice a year justifies people treating me as not a full Canadian. Further, if Mr. Bissoondath thinks that before multiculturalism he was more likely to be accepted into a mainstream (Anglo-)Canadian society, he is deluding himself.

    In fact, one of the people behimd multiculturalism policy, Sen. Paul Yusyk, was denied a job at a public school board because they did not want a "foreigner" teaching their children. Yuzyk was second-gen with a degree from University of Manitoba. Multiculturalism was intended to address very real issues, and did not replace some kind of golden age. It's just it is often implemented in half-assed, hypocritical way, introducing new problems. I'm not a big fan of the "mosaic" metaphor though.
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  17. #15
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav
    I'm a hyphen-Canadian, and I don't see why my enjoying pierogies in public twice a year justifies people treating me as not a full Canadian.
    Sorry. Missed that. I don't see why, either. I loathe pierogies, but I'll fight for your right to eat 'em!

    As you say, multiculturalism certainly didn't replace a golden age. All that seems to get replaced is the most-maligned-group-of-the-moment. I can remember strong prejudice against both Brits (like me) and Italians in the 50s, West Indians and Portuguese in the 60s, South Asians, then Vietnamese ... now it's Muslims from anywhere. Natives, Slavs and Blacks from no-matter-where have had their troubles throughout. Don't get me started on religious prejudice...

    Perhaps Neil Bissoondath wasn't the best writer to quote. It's just that I remembered one of his books and the West Indian character's line about "Canada racialist as hell." It's stuck with me for many years.

    J.

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