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  1. #1
    Abner is offline Registered User
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    Question about DACA

    If so many immigrants came here as young children, how come some are adults now and have not achieved citizenship? I ask this out of pure ignorance on the issue. Couldn't they have applied for citizenship? I don't know, I am confused. I personally don't think trying to get rid of DACA is a good idea.

  2. #2
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abner View Post
    If so many immigrants came here as young children, how come some are adults now and have not achieved citizenship? I ask this out of pure ignorance on the issue. Couldn't they have applied for citizenship? I don't know, I am confused. I personally don't think trying to get rid of DACA is a good idea.
    Short answer: no. You don't "apply" for citisenship; in most cases, you need to get a Green Card first. In vast majority of cases, you need someone to "sponsor" you for GC: it means either close family member or an employer, and you need to satisfy requirements of a "category" as well. For example: relevant to me: employment-based, 3rd preference (EBGC3) category - Bachelor's degree, position requiring Bachelor's degree, and "labor certification (LC)" - employer had proven to DoL that they advertised at "prevailing wage" and couldn't find a local employee. Employment-based, 2nd preference (EBGC2): Master's, Master's position, and LC. EBGC2 "special handling": tenure-track job in college or university, job ad in national publication. EBGC1 is "special interest" or "exceptional ability"; I didn't have either specialization or publication record to pull this off. There is a category not requiring a degree, but it has such a big backlog as to be impractical.

    So, for an average immigrant, this means having immediate family - or marriage. Those who can pull it off, do. However, if you crossed the border illegally, you are not eligible in any case! If one overstays visa, it's not as bad but still requires a lawyer to sort out. You don't just "apply"; otherwise, I'd take a non-TT job I was offered in Hawaii and would "just apply" within 6 years on H1B (precisely what the dept. chair suggested I'd do).
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  3. #3
    Abner is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    Short answer: no. You don't "apply" for citisenship; in most cases, you need to get a Green Card first. In vast majority of cases, you need someone to "sponsor" you for GC: it means either close family member or an employer, and you need to satisfy requirements of a "category" as well. For example: relevant to me: employment-based, 3rd preference (EBGC3) category - Bachelor's degree, position requiring Bachelor's degree, and "labor certification (LC)" - employer had proven to DoL that they advertised at "prevailing wage" and couldn't find a local employee. Employment-based, 2nd preference (EBGC2): Master's, Master's position, and LC. EBGC2 "special handling": tenure-track job in college or university, job ad in national publication. EBGC1 is "special interest" or "exceptional ability"; I didn't have either specialization or publication record to pull this off. There is a category not requiring a degree, but it has such a big backlog as to be impractical.

    So, for an average immigrant, this means having immediate family - or marriage. Those who can pull it off, do. However, if you crossed the border illegally, you are not eligible in any case! If one overstays visa, it's not as bad but still requires a lawyer to sort out. You don't just "apply"; otherwise, I'd take a non-TT job I was offered in Hawaii and would "just apply" within 6 years on H1B (precisely what the dept. chair suggested I'd do).
    Oh thanks! That clears things up.

  4. #4
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abner View Post
    I personally don't think trying to get rid of DACA is a good idea.

    What is rewarded is encouraged. Give more people reason to migrate illegally and more people will do so, exacerbating the problem.

  5. #5
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abner View Post
    I personally don't think trying to get rid of DACA is a good idea.
    I guess there's a lot of Republicans who agree with you

    GOP rep: Delaying the end of DACA is 'Republican suicide'
    American College of Sports Medicine

  6. #6
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    I guess there's a lot of Republicans who agree with you

    GOP rep: Delaying the end of DACA is 'Republican suicide'
    Pretty sure that guy is saying the opposite of what Abner is....
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  7. #7
    jhp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abner View Post
    Oh thanks! That clears things up.
    That is not the complete list of ways one can get green card.

    Currently there are several more ways, ranging from described family, employment. there is also special immigrant, refugee or asylee, human trafficing and crime victims, victims of abuse, other categories, and through registry. Under "other" there are at least ten more sub categories one can meet.

    In essence, there are many reasons one can get a green card.

    https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/eligibility-categories

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  9. #8
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    Pretty sure that guy is saying the opposite of what Abner is....
    Guy? What guy? And who is this Abner of whom you speak?
    American College of Sports Medicine

  10. #9
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    Pretty sure that guy is saying the opposite of what Abner is....

    Verily.

    Trump wants the six month delay to give GOP legislators time for reasoned debate. Or he wants the bastards to have to commit themselves to a policy.

  11. #10
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abner View Post
    I ask this out of pure ignorance on the issue. I don't know, I am confused. I personally don't think trying to get rid of DACA is a good idea.
    The following is Constitutionally predicated on balancing power between the following three branches of government:
    - Legislature (Congressional branch - makes laws on behalf of the citizenry)
    - President (Executive branch - makes executive decisions)
    - Supreme Court (Judicial branch - settles Constitutional disputes)

    1. DACA was rejected by Congress.

    2. Obama didn't like what Congress did, so he illegally bypassed Congress and signed DACA into law by executive order.

    3. The Trump administration put a six-month moratorium on Obama's DACA to allow Congress to accept, reject or modify DACA.


    Will Congress be able to take action on DACA in the six-month window? If not, then President Trump can toss DACA out the window because it's currently only an executive order from Obama.
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  12. #11
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhp View Post
    That is not the complete list of ways one can get green card.

    Currently there are several more ways, ranging from described family, employment. there is also special immigrant, refugee or asylee, human trafficing and crime victims, victims of abuse, other categories, and through registry. Under "other" there are at least ten more sub categories one can meet.

    In essence, there are many reasons one can get a green card.

    https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/eligibility-categories
    You're right of course. That said, I believe most legal immigrants come through a family category, followed by employment; other categories are less common.

    The principle is the same: you can't just "apply"; you need to fit into one of the predefined keyholes.

    There's another reason why DACA recipients can't just "apply" for status: first two letters of that acronym stand for "Deferred Action", meaning that they would be deported if the government wouldn't decide to postpone that action. If you are deportable, you can't change your status to immigrant. Again, I believe there are specific exceptions that one shouldn't attempt without the good lawyer. For example, subject to complex limitations (see lawyer!), an undocumented person can get Green Card by marrying American citizen. Of course, to marry someone solely for the reason of getting immigration benefit is visa fraud and can get one deported (and the spouse, prosecuted) in its own right.
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  13. #12
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    Trump wants the six month delay to give GOP legislators time for reasoned debate. Or he wants the bastards to have to commit themselves to a policy.
    There has got to be a good chance that in six months we'll be right back here again. Immigration is perhaps the most controversial topic around so the idea that they will find a way to compromise seems remote.
    American College of Sports Medicine

  14. #13
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    "But we have so to send a clear message, just because your child gets across the border, that doesn't mean the child gets to stay. So, we don't want to send a message that is contrary to our laws or will encourage more children to make that dangerous journey."

    CNN.com - Transcripts

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