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  1. #1
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Democrat Party Leader (Keith Ellison D-MN) claims: “Cuba has better healthcare...

    Democrat Party Leader (Keith Ellison D-MN) claims: “Cuba has better healthcare outcomes than the U.S.”

    Babalú Blog
    Humberto Fontova
    July 25, 2017

    “The countries like Cuba or Canada or Russia or a lot of places in this world spend half what we spend per capita and they got better health outcomes than we do,” said the deputy chair of the Democratic National Committee (Rep. Keith Ellison) in Washington D.C. last Monday.

    Cont... Democrat Party Leader (Keith Ellison D-MN) claims: “Cuba has better healthcare outcomes than the U.S.” | Babalú Blog


    Cuba, Canada and Russia. Hmm...

  2. #2
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Does that mean he's admitting that Obamacare has been a massive failure?

    Or is he just full of crap?
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  3. #3
    wmcdonald is offline Registered User
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    He is sorely mistaken on all accounts.

  4. #4
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmcdonald View Post
    He is sorely mistaken on all accounts.

    Better if he were but he knows what he's doing.

  5. #5
    heirophant is offline Registered User
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    Countries with socialized medicine probably do provide wide access to very basic medical care to broad segments of the population. But beyond that, it's doubtful.

    Cuba is largely an unknown, and all we see is propaganda regarding their domestic health care. Russian healthcare is widely known to be pretty bad, with shabby Soviet-era hospitals often short of basic supplies and staffed by poorly trained physicians (like nurse -practitioners in the US). Canada is almost certainly the best of the three, if you can get past the rationing delays. We often hear stories of more affluent Canadians coming to the US for more advanced treatments that are hard to find in Canada.

    The US excels in basic medical research (perhaps the best in the world) and in applying the most recent discoveries (provided that patients or their insurance can pay for it). That drives up costs per patient.

    Here in the US it isn't all that bad even for indigent patients, who qualify for Medicaid. What's more, if you visit a California emergency room in a government-run public hospital, the patients waiting will be almost 100% Spanish speakers, all waiting for essentially free care at the public expense. So we aren't just caring for ourselves, we are caring for millions of people from the countries to the south.

    I think that the people who have it worst here are locals in their early 60's who have worked all their lives, have medical conditions that make it impossible to find affordable medical insurance , and have too many assets saved up for their coming retirements to qualify for indigent care. They would have to spend down all their savings to qualify.
    Last edited by heirophant; 08-06-2017 at 08:26 AM.

  6. #6
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by heirophant View Post
    Countries with socialized medicine probably do provide wide access to very basic medical care to broad segments of the population. But beyond that, it's doubtful.
    Primary care in Dominica is actually pretty good, there are private doctors for those who want to see one, but villages have small public health centers that are pretty basic, but where one can go see a nurse -practitioner for free. You'll pay to have lab work done, though.

    The public hospital, on the other hand, has a very poor reputation.
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  7. #7
    Stanislav is online now Registered User
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    The basic point Ellison tries to make is that US healthcare system is far from paragon of efficiency. This is correct. He's comically wrong about Russia though. Canadian system is FAR from perfect, but it does manage to get better outcomes cheaper compared to US. I don't know about Cuba; not sure whether it can be assessed fairly, as I would not believe their official data. Mature dictatorships like theirs tend to survive by perfecting bullshit factory.

    I would really, really prefer that mainstream Dems would not make statements that make them sound ignorant. Leave it to Trump and Jill Stein (and as I'm led to believe, Bernie in his youth).
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  9. #8
    Phdtobe is offline Registered User
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    I like my Canadian health care but it does have problems. A northern Canadian person who got hurt in Cuba a while ago is still in Cuba. The family made the call that he will get better care in Cuba than in his northern Canadian community.

  10. #9
    Stanislav is online now Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phdtobe View Post
    I like my Canadian health care but it does have problems. A northern Canadian person who got hurt in Cuba a while ago is still in Cuba. The family made the call that he will get better care in Cuba than in his northern Canadian community.
    Well yeah, as I'm sure there are counties like this in US. Besides, you don't know how typical their Cuban experience is. I know that if you were a tourist in Soviet Union, you'd have constant attention from the KGB - but also access to much better services than what's available to ordinary folk. This would include healthcare, for sure - especially in Moscow or Leningrad. Regimes like this are all about showing off to outsiders. In Cuba, in addition to that, tourists are the major source or foreign currency, which it at a premium in planned umeconomy. They do not care for their own people nearly as much. Which is not to say they don't have their good sides (accepting Chornobyl kids in their resort was mighty kind of them); just be aware there's a heavy dose of propaganda in pretty much anything in there.
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  11. #10
    heirophant is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phdtobe View Post
    I like my Canadian health care but it does have problems. A northern Canadian person who got hurt in Cuba a while ago is still in Cuba. The family made the call that he will get better care in Cuba than in his northern Canadian community.
    Couldn't he travel from Cuba to Toronto or someplace like that? Why would he have to receive his care in a remote northern community?

  12. #11
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    President Trump has the right idea; make Congress live with the same health insurance they foist upon the rest of the United States. Then watch how things change for the better, and how quickly it happens.
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  13. #12
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    President Trump has the right idea; make Congress live with the same health insurance they foist upon the rest of the United States. Then watch how things change for the better, and how quickly it happens.
    A lot of them and their staffers use D.C. HealthLink, the state-level Obamacare exchange for Washington, D.C.
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